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Monday, January 09, 2023

Joe Rogan on the Spotify Drama: "I love Neil Young, but ... "

Joe Rogan & Dave Portnoy on JRE #1920 - January 5, 2023

Joe Rogan and Dave Portnoy, founder of the digital media company Barstool Sports, discuss the attempt at canceling JRE, and the Neil Young and Spotify tempest.


"I love Neil Young, but ..." - Joe Rogan @ 3:30

As background, in January 2022, Spotify removed Neil Young’s catalog from its service after the artist published —then took down — an open letter with an ultimatum: deal with the vaccine misinformation coming from Joe Rogan’s podcast, or lose his music.


  "I watched the needle take another man": 
Neil Young Takes The Jab 

The 2022 drama made headlines around the EARTH after Neil Young published a letter on his website  demanding that SPOTIFY remove all of his music due to Joe Rogan's "vaccine disinformation"And shortly thereafter -- all hell broke loose here on this blog and elsewhere. (See here, here and here) The magnitude of all of this was so great that even Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young reunited -- although only on paper -- in their opposition to SPOTIFY.  Neil Young then wrote to SPOTIFY employees:  "Get out of that place before it eats up your soul." 


VIEWPOINT: Neil Young Archives
(Click photo to enlarge)


Neil Young and Joe Rogan

Labels: , ,


At 1/09/2023 11:10:00 PM, Blogger Ross said...

I have absolutely no interest in what Joe Rogan has to say.

At 1/10/2023 12:12:00 AM, Blogger Art Carey said...

CSN returned to Spotify — which seems to be doing ok.

At 1/10/2023 03:54:00 AM, Blogger thrasher said...

Ok, Ross but Neil certainly does.

At 1/10/2023 07:42:00 AM, Blogger Cubanpete said...

After 12 months what actual misinformation did Rogan spread aside from listening to guests advocating the benefit of Ivermectin?

He got absolutely toasted when he gave his opinion that a healthy 30 year old should not vaccinated. The whole world jumped on that and that it was everyone's responsibility to get vaxxed to stop transmission.

Fast forward to present day and it is now common knowledge that the vaccine has zero effect reducing transmission of the virus and was NEVER tested for transmission reduction.

We all went along for the ride and fair enough. But really, the vast majority of what he said has now proven correct. The fact is, there was very little if any benefit of being vaccinated under the age of 50 unless you with underlying health conditions.

Neil got this one wrong.

At 1/10/2023 10:58:00 AM, Blogger thrasher said...

@ CubanPete - thanks for sharing thoughts here on this delicate topic.

At the time, many found the whole episode quite curious w/ Rogan & Spotify & Neil. The fact that the subject is still reverberating a year later speaks volumes of the significance of what some saw as inconsequential at the time. Many, many were of the opinion of -- literally -- "Who is Neil Young, anyway?". "Who is Joe Rogan?" Who cares what these nobodies say.

It is almost certain that 90$ of Neil's audience had never heard of Joe Rogan. And vice-versa.

At the time, we spoke to someone who felt the entire episode was entirely orchestrated/100% manufactured/synthetic to promote what is known as "The Streisand Effect".

Look it up. "The Streisand Effect" is a real phenomenon.

In the aftermath, Rogan gained like 2M more followers. IOW, the drama brought massive attention not just to Rogan but his guest Dr Robert Malone, author of 7 medical patents, and his message.

Otherwise, this was a massive backfire.

#WT1sWBWF #AllTogether #DontForgetLove #BigShift #BeTheRain #ShutItDown #NoFear #KeepCalm
#TurnOffTheNews #BuildAGarden #disCERNment #FullDisclosure #Nuremberg2.0 #Truth+Reconciliation

At 1/10/2023 01:22:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

"it is now common knowledge that the vaccine has zero effect reducing transmission of the virus and was NEVER tested for transmission reduction"

Common knowledge amongst parroting knuckledraggers maybe. The risk of transmitting it is up to 40% lower in clinical testing. In practise this might be a bit lower as people get less sick and are more likely to show up at work while infected.

Neils gut feeling was, as usual, right.

At 1/10/2023 02:08:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

The level of discourse between these two knuckle-dragging buffoons is pathetic. who is the moron asking Rogan questions and why is he smoking a cigar? Is this some sort of symbolic act of masculinity? Or is it just moronic: you decide!

A total lack of nuance, sophistication, or critical thought is now an acceptable form for many citizens: too bad for them, but then too bad for us.

There is no compromising with people like this, no back and forth, no being nice. They are the problem and will continue to be so UNTIL WE STOP LISTENING TO THEM.

At 1/10/2023 03:17:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

While I see that Streisand's intentions and legal action to protect the value of her real estate backfired on her I cannot see why this was the case with Neil Young's move to have his music taken away from Spotify. He had very little to loose there. Did Rogan and Malone get more attention or did Neil Young direct the attention of other world-wide media to expose the fact that Rogan and Malone were selling fake news?

At 1/10/2023 03:31:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

Neil Young's withdrawal from Spotify probably was covered by every serious and not so serious media outlet in Europe, potentially reaching 450 million EU consumers (imagine that's a 120 million more than in the US) and many of them did not just shake their head about Neil Young or tried to label this as anti-free-speech but asked the question whether it is helpful under the then prevailing circumstances to have somebody yell "Fire!" in a fully occupied theatre.

At 1/10/2023 03:37:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

The cigar smoking knucklehead is David Portnoy, a Trump-voting sports blogger who thinks it's ok to fracture ribs of women he is having intercourse with. Robert Malone is a rogue biochemist who, among other nonsense, said covid vaccines cause AIDS.

This is where covidiots get their information.

At 1/10/2023 03:40:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

I was referring to the original incident. The guy in the video is a Mr. Portnoy I also never have heard anything about before but I am sure he is the new Omphalos of yet another digital parallel universe I don't care about.

At 1/10/2023 03:41:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

that's what I meant.

At 1/10/2023 05:14:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Thank you for the information, Dionys and Hayo

Ok, so I should probably apologize as my insults are "more of the same" and so cause more froth when people already need a rabies shot.

But, in. 2020 when I gave a public lecture to the college and our small city on the disproportionate consequences of COVID on minorities in the Chicago, I guess I made the mistake of thinking a disease is perhaps the paradigm of a public enemy, something we could rally around, something that might actually help us see the gross inequities of our society.

So, it literally does harm to my mind- and I am not kidding about this- to hear these flippant, careless, and ignorant persons feeding the flames of pain and dispossession (because this is what the pandemic had wrought on those with little resources, those with bad housing in densely populated areas, those without health care and on and on and on).

Listen up: freedom of speech does not include the freedom to simply say "whatever you want at any time." It also does not include the freedom to spread misinformation. A primer course in rights theory, includes this axiom: all rights contain limitations.

Now, if you want to argue that freedom of speech does include the right to say whatever you want whenever you want then you are faced with one more problem: lying and dissembling are immoral. And as Augustine argued, lying that causes serious harms to another human being are "big lies" and can never be tolerated.

Obvious fallacy: to act as a decent citizen and good human being does not mean acting simply in accordance with your rights as a human being or citizen. This is a bare minimum. Our obligations are deeper and include acting in accordance with the possibility of freedom. Spreading misinformation for an audience, for money, which also leads to serious harm is, in fact, deeply wrong and shame worthy.

If that fool with the cigar could breath the last desperate breath of how many and feel one tiny fraction of the pain of those left behind, he might not hold the same views. More importantly, Kant's words that freedom is really the ability to regulate one's acts, to conform the will to moral law, is actual freedom and the possibility of living freely as a human community: in short, freedom is difficult and beautiful, not cheap and easy.

At 1/10/2023 05:17:00 PM, Blogger Richie Cruz said...

Anyone who dare challenges the Covidians and their cult are obviously knuckle dragging fools, right? And apparently God help us all if they smoke a cigar?? Uhh, okay. More than likely if it was on the Rogan show, that cigar probably had some weed in it, but who knows, maybe THAT'S wrong now to the cultists. They are VERY serious with their judgements and finger waving.

Of course the vaccine is totally effective, and to question that is akin to any number of awful things that knuckle dragging folks who question authority will do if given the chance. I mean, no one who is vaccinated is getting Covid, right? Oh wait....

And don't forget your 2-3 booster shots every year. I mean yeah, the good folks at Pfizer admitted they didn't test the boosters on humans, but whatever. The tv tells me to get boosted, and we all know the corporate media military oligarchy that is really in charge of things would NEVER lead us down a wrong road, right? So keep your head down, your mouth shut, and your sleeve rolled up on your arm and take your medicine. Like any good sheep.

C'mon guys, what's the big fuss? Watching a 24 year old NFL player drop dead on the field or seeing an 18 year old female MNA fighter die is totally normal, yes? Well guess what, it is now!

Anyone who still believes this bullshit at this point in time is either a complete fool or simply a cultist. And that includes Neil, Joe Biden, and anyone who degrades someone else who has the guts to go against the tide and challenge this crap narrative.

At 1/10/2023 05:41:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

@ Richie Cruz

Yes, you are a knuckledragger and you are parroting nonsense and you are probably responsible for people getting post-acute covid syndrome (something you probably also don't believe in because some influencer told you). You are calling people "sheep" while you sound exeactly like all the other "look at me thinking for myself and going against the grain" idiots.
No scientist said you would not get covid when you are vaccinated (that is not how vaccination works) and people sometimes suddenly dropped dead before the covid vaccination. Read something for a change.

At 1/10/2023 06:05:00 PM, Blogger thrasher said...

@ Folks - dipping in here for a quick sec.

Please try and keep this civil. This topic is way too important for folks to get unhinged here.

And for folks who say this is a Neil blog and this is way off topic, pls remember why Neil hasn't toured in over 3 years. And by the looks of things that might be it. Over. Done.

So any discussion which can reconcile the 2 positions into better alignment and get us back to a more sane EARTH, the better.

Try to remember peace & Don't Forget Love

At 1/10/2023 06:12:00 PM, Blogger Dan Swan said...

We (Humanity) are doomed. Social media will be our demise and it will be self inflicted. This trend is only going to continue until the power goes out. This is a bell that we shouldn’t have rang, but it’s too late now. I’m going to take all my technology and dump it in the ocean. Good luck….. you’re going to need it.

Peace 🙏

At 1/10/2023 06:25:00 PM, Blogger Jim said...

The minorities issue with Covid early on had to do with Vitamin D according to many peer to peer papers. The entire country has a problem with Vitamin D in their systems since we don't go out in the sun without sunscreen. Since I addressed that problem in the last pandemic of 2009 [H1N1] I can't remember the last time I got a cold and allergies are way down for me, too.

What I'd like know is why did Jimmy Carter give horse medicine to millions of people in Africa with the proud help of the W.H.O. reported in 2013? Clearly, no human should take Ivermictin according to the CDC who carefully worded there statement but used a horse image to make their strong point! You didn't have to read what they said since you just looked at the horse associated with Ivermectin, point taken. Ivermectin is not for humans. Even if they have river blindness and are having a miserable life Ivermictin is not for humans, right? During the dark times of free speech doctors lost their license if they did a RX for Ivermictin, right?

If the vaccine didn't stop the spread why was it mandated and people lost their jobs? Just so you could live longer as a homeless person since the only impact of the vaccine was individual health and not group or herd health? So many people are on record that if you took the vaccine the spread would STOP. Even the President of the United States said that, the spread would stop, so I am thinking pity pater, lets get at 'er.

There was a shame on me because I couldn't take the vaccine due to allergies. I was told I could die in the chair the moment I got the vaccine and if I did go through with it, wait an hour next to the nurse with the Epipen and go at a time the ER wasn't busy because I'd be coming in code red [dead] to the ER. Must have heard safe and effective a million times in the last two years and shame on me not being a gambler. Then the boasters started and so right now I would have gone through that four times calling the ER if they are busy.

When you take the polio vaccine do you still think you are going to get polio? Did the name changers recently change what vaccine means?

How do vaccines work Hayo? You still get the disease "a little bit" but you don't die?

At 1/10/2023 07:28:00 PM, Blogger Richie Cruz said...

I like to go out in public and sneeze on people. Look at you, Columbo, you figured me out. Of course, because of my knuckles dragging along the ground, it's hard for me to cover my mouth when I cough or sneeze, so I just let the germs fly away, and good luck to whoever is near me. I figure I've infected hundreds, if not thousands so far. Especially grandmas, I just LOOOOVE sneezing on grandmas

Hey, speaking of reading something, how bout you re-read the last paragraph of my previous post. It's not hard, the post is right above yours. Read that last paragraph, it's dedicated to you. Now if you don't mind, there's a homeless guy nearby, and have I got a cough waiting for him! See ya!!!

At 1/11/2023 01:04:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

1. Deferred pediatric Study C4591001 to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of
COMIRNATY in children 12 years through 15 years of age.
Final Protocol Submission: October 7, 2020
Study Completion: May 31, 2023
Final Report Submission: October 31, 2023

At 1/11/2023 01:05:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

2. Deferred pediatric Study C4591007 to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of
COMIRNATY in infants and children 6 months to <12 years of age.
Final Protocol Submission: February 8, 2021
Study Completion: November 30, 2023
Final Report Submission: May 31, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:05:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

3. Deferred pediatric Study C4591023 to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of
COMIRNATY in infants <6 months of age.
Final Protocol Submission: January 31, 2022
Study Completion: July 31, 2024
Final Report Submission: October 31, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:06:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

4. Study C4591009, entitled “A Non-Interventional Post-Approval Safety Study of
the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine in the United States,” to evaluate
the occurrence of myocarditis and pericarditis following administration of
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this study according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: August 31, 2021
Monitoring Report Submission: October 31, 2022
Interim Report Submission: October 31, 2023
Study Completion: June 30, 2025
Final Report Submission: October 31, 2025

At 1/11/2023 01:06:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

5. Study C4591021, entitled “Post Conditional Approval Active Surveillance Study
Among Individuals in Europe Receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech Coronavirus
Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Vaccine,” to evaluate the occurrence of myocarditis
and pericarditis following administration of COMIRNATY.
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this study according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: August 11, 2021
Progress Report Submission: September 30, 2021
Interim Report 1 Submission: March 31, 2022
Interim Report 2 Submission: September 30, 2022
Interim Report 3 Submission: March 31, 2023
Interim Report 4 Submission: September 30, 2023
Interim Report 5 Submission: March 31, 2024
Study Completion: March 31, 2024
Final Report Submission: September 30, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:07:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

6. Study C4591021 substudy to describe the natural history of myocarditis and
pericarditis following administration of COMIRNATY.
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this study according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: January 31, 2022
Study Completion: March 31, 2024
Final Report Submission: September 30, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:08:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

7. Study C4591036, a prospective cohort study with at least 5 years of follow-up for
potential long-term sequelae of myocarditis after vaccination (in collaboration
with Pediatric Heart Network).
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this study according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: November 30, 2021
Study Completion: December 31, 2026
Final Report Submission: May 31, 2027

At 1/11/2023 01:08:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

8. Study C4591007 substudy to prospectively assess the incidence of subclinical
myocarditis following administration of the second dose of COMIRNATY in a
subset of participants 5 through 15 years of age.
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this assessment according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: September 30, 2021
Study Completion: November 30, 2023
Final Report Submission: May 31, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:08:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

9. Study C4591031 substudy to prospectively assess the incidence of subclinical
myocarditis following administration of a third dose of COMIRNATY in a subset of
participants 16 to 30 years of age.
We acknowledge the timetable you submitted on August 21, 2021, which states
that you will conduct this study according to the following schedule:
Final Protocol Submission: November 30, 2021
Study Completion: June 30, 2022
Final Report Submission: December 31, 2022

At 1/11/2023 01:09:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

10. Study C4591022, entitled “Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Exposure during
Pregnancy: A Non-Interventional Post-Approval Safety Study of Pregnancy and
Infant Outcomes in the Organization of Teratology Information Specialists
(OTIS)/MotherToBaby Pregnancy Registry.”
Final Protocol Submission: July 1, 2021
Study Completion: June 30, 2025
Final Report Submission: December 31, 2025

At 1/11/2023 01:09:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

11. Study C4591007 substudy to evaluate the immunogenicity and safety of lower
dose levels of COMIRNATY in individuals 12 through <30 years of age.
Final Protocol Submission: September 30, 2021
Study Completion: November 30, 2023
Final Report Submission: May 31, 2024

At 1/11/2023 01:09:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

12. Study C4591012, entitled “Post-emergency Use Authorization Active Safety
Surveillance Study Among Individuals in the Veteran’s Affairs Health System
Receiving Pfizer-BioNTech Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Vaccine.”
Final Protocol Submission: January 29, 2021
Study Completion: June 30, 2023
Final Report Submission: December 31, 2023

At 1/11/2023 01:10:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

13.Study C4591014, entitled “Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 BNT162b2 Vaccine
Effectiveness Study - Kaiser Permanente Southern California.”
Final Protocol Submission: March 22, 2021
Study Completion: December 31, 2022
Final Report Submission: June 30, 2023

At 1/11/2023 01:15:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

When you look up Pfizer + Ethics (depending on your left, right or center algorithm big tech wants you to see) it might give you pause.

At 1/11/2023 01:30:00 AM, Blogger Jim said...

Ivermectin: enigmatic multifaceted ‘wonder’ drug continues to surprise and exceed expectations

Andy Crump 

The Journal of Antibiotics volume 70, pages 495–505 (2017)Cite this article

400k Accesses

101 Citations

6829 Altmetric


Source of info:

At 1/11/2023 01:34:00 AM, Blogger Dionys said...

Maybe everybody should come down from their manichaean high horse. It's a sad truth also: Open and democratic societies want and unfortunately must live with those members spreading obvious nonsense even at the risk of losing human lives. But open democratic societies cannot and must not oblige individuals to have their music being played along when losing human lives due to people spreading obvious nonsense. If The Rolling Stones decided to not have their music played at political rallyes because they do not subscribe to the policies promoted there nobody gives a damn in the first place and secondly their move might make people think about where they stand. That's maybe the best that art or any form of cultural practice can achieve: people thinking, making up their mind. That expressively includes the possibility of taking the wrong turn. Successful art then will be able to expose those wrong decisions and turns. That is what Neil Young and his friends did when withdrawing from Spotify.
My understanding is that the only means to counteract the spreading of dangerous nonsense is to not feed the trolls (Thanks, Dan, for the reminder).
So rather than to discuss obvious nonsense bordering on troll propaganda I would like to debate the role of responsible media and their delicate attempts to balance scope, outreach, bandwith, to generate traffic, and/or their goal to maintain a certain neutrality and so on. How to have a lively debate without going over the by now very American cliff of dissent for dissent's sake ad nauseam.

At 1/11/2023 02:25:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

@ Thrash,

You want things to stay civil? I did spot your disgusting little Nuremberg2.0 hashtag. Very civil indeed.

At 1/11/2023 02:45:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

@ Richie Cruz

Did not spot your demented response since it was burried by another covidiot. Why would I read your generic bs again? When I said "read something" I meant "read something scientific". Andrew Tate doesn't count.

At 1/11/2023 03:16:00 AM, Blogger Dionys said...

Dear Hayo,

while we both can agree on many positions (and in most cases I do not agree with RC) I would kindly ask you to stop hurling insults, it just doesn't help the discussion. Remember when talking to an opponent make sure one can see a difference in style and manner, at least.

What is this "Nuremberg 2.0" hashtag about? I am not subscribing to this social media service but am interested in what it means.

At 1/11/2023 03:49:00 AM, Blogger Dionys said...

Oh, did a little fact checking myself. The Nuremberg two stop zero narrative is another one of these hysterical attempts to discredit all public policies aimed at fighting the pandemic as being somewhat totalitarian. It's funny how people at the end of their wits always come up with what hereabouts (Germany) is called the "Nazi Club", accusing the opponent more or less directly to have done what the Nazis did. Unfortunately for us here in Germany many Anglo-Saxons fall for this line of non-argument that replaces true argument by augmenting immorality on the opponents side.

At 1/11/2023 09:00:00 AM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Required Reading, Alfred Crosby, "America's Forgotten Pandemic"

At 1/11/2023 09:55:00 AM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Dionys- I hear you. Dan- I hear you as well. What exactly is the difference between "feeding the trolls" and arguing for what you think is true? Sorry, but I can't let it go and I don't see it as "high horse."

At 1/11/2023 10:31:00 AM, Blogger Dionys said...

By now everybody had a fair chance to see what the truth is, if interested in the truth, that is. So why continue to ride a dead horse? My attempts at micro-steering this away from some people insulting each other maybe fruitless but I tried... Forgive me the manichaean horse. Sometimes I like to use these words unknown to some participants to give them something to chew on because it's highly likely they do not know what they mean. Nuremberg two dot zero sent me on a little detour myself. Anyway, the world is not black and white and this discussion went into places where we can say that we have all been there before.

At 1/11/2023 11:18:00 AM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

No worries my friend. I seem to be incapable of getting off the dead horse, my own problem.

At 1/11/2023 11:51:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

I am done being nice to these people, tried it for over two years. I don't think I have been that rude especially compared to what I would really like to say. And yes, I am talking from a place of anger. Seeing colleagues and students struggle with post-covid syndrome and dealing with it myself is shitty enough without numbskulls making holocaust comparisons.

At 1/11/2023 01:26:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

@ Hayo
I see where you come from and I do understand your anger all too well. But then we have to keep in mind that this is a website dedicated to the music and doings of Neil Young. Even if we don't agree most of the time Richie Cruz is a dedicated Neil Young fan who likes teasing and provocation, I have been a victim of this grumpy old man myself already. About others that participated in this thread I am not so sure that I would share a beer with them. That is not to say that you should not speak out your opinion, but a shouting match is turning people off, especially if one witnessed that kind of derailed debate one time too often already. It starts out as a discussion about whether Neil Young was right to pull his music out of Spotify and it ends with people shouting at each other whether vaccination or other measure are a legitimate and effective reaction to the pandemic.

This reminds me of discussions in Munich's pedestrian area up until the late 1980's: Old men, some of them surviving veterans of the German Wehrmacht or worse, debated endlessly about why the war was lost, if it could have been won, who did what or not. In the end they always were just a yelling bunch of self-righteous know-it-alls, the facts and the truth were the same as before.

At 1/11/2023 01:53:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Neil opened the door, so to speak, on this issue. I don't see how we can avoid the arguments.

My mother and father (bless them) used to "argue" over the civil war and most often it was my father "baiting" my mother about ignorant racists in the south. My mother would respond in a predictable fashion and, especially when alcohol was involved, the same pattern would just repeat itself.

This seems like the main problem here: a logjam. Nothing is going to change and patterns will be repeated. For me, that is a goodbye wave.

Goodbye from this discussion.

At 1/12/2023 12:27:00 AM, Blogger Hansolo74 said...

the vax was BS, but I support Neil's decisions.

At 1/12/2023 07:51:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

I am done too. This is worse than fighting the pro-war idiots here in the LWW-era. I am pretty sure they are the same idiots but they got worse.

At 1/12/2023 09:56:00 AM, Blogger thrasher said...

@ Folks - again, many thanks to all here for this painful but important discussion of the most consequential years of our lives.

While some may be forsaking this place and conversation haven forever, please be reminded that we will carry forward.

This is our self appointed task and mission.

So no escape or respite for TW. We don not begrudge. This is your freedom of choice to leave.

We understand. The toxicity can be debilitating.

In fact, a good friend fowd'd over a link and said:

Watch this thrasher. This will help. In particular the section at 43:00 where Jordan speaks to a Social Media Manager suffering chronic burnout from relentless negativity.

Jordan Peterson's Secret to Overcome Chaos within Yourself | Brain Bar
(This is known as the Budapest Sessions.)

And yes, it was inspiring. So some may go, but we are never alone.

Truth will prevail in the end. We're on the side of truth so we know we'll be ok.


At 1/12/2023 10:34:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

Ah yes, bring in Jordan Peterson, that will keep te peace! How many times does he start crying in this video?

At 1/12/2023 10:57:00 AM, Blogger thrasher said...

Thanks for not abandonding ship Hayo.
And for assisting with Streisand Effect on Jordan Peterson.
If you do watch , he and the audience and panelists burst into tears multiple times. That is why it is SO powerful.
Speaking personal truth does that, you know, right?
... as we type with tears streaming down our face, soldiering on with our self appointed task...

At 1/12/2023 11:20:00 AM, Blogger Hayo said...

Who said I was abandoning ship? I just said I was done debating idiots as it doesn't help, as it didn't help debating Cold Bowl Of Chili in 2006.

If I promise to watch 50 minutes of this unstable, meat-only reactionary buffoon, will you actually read into the Nuremberg trials? As a history teacher I find it important people know these things and stop making careless comparisons that are hurtful to both scientists saving our lives and relatives of war crime victims.

For Neil fans unfamiliar with Peterson, his son actually plays Harvest Moon quite nicely. It is a good place to start but I doubt anyone with half a brain will get much further.

At 1/12/2023 02:56:00 PM, Blogger Richie Cruz said...

Has there been any fields of work that have totally lost the trust of the public as much as teachers and scientists have? They're right up there with politicians and media members at this point.

If anyone tells you that they work in any of those 4 fields, run away from that person as faat as possible. They only want to hurt, not help.

Like the old saying, those that can do, those that can't teach.

At 1/12/2023 03:20:00 PM, Blogger Dionys said...

Don′t know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don′t know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took

Don't know much about geography
Don′t know much trigonometry
Don′t know much about algebra
Don't know what a slide rule is for

La-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta (history)
Hmm-mmm (biology)
Well, la-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta (science book)
Mmm-mmm-mmm (French I took), yeah

An thanks for the lesson, man, we needed that.

At 1/12/2023 03:23:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Richie, I won't say what I would say in person because Thrasher would ban me forever.

Do you think teaching is not doing? Have you ever taught?

Do you know how many students I have mentored into medical school, law school, graduate school, government jobs, social work, community service over a 30 year career? Or how many college students I have helped over the years with personal problems, addictions, mental health issues? Professors do a lot more than you think.

I also know how to build houses. I do quite a bit of community service.

But now a high school teacher or a middle school teacher, invested in really helping kids, takes endless crap from people with your bad ideas and bad attitude. Grossly unfair and really dismal on your part.

When I said the guy Portney was a knuckle-dragger, I did not defame his entire profession (whatever that is- oh yes, I forgot, he is an "influencer"!!!! Wow, I have such admiration for that "occupation").

No abandoning ship after reading this.

At 1/12/2023 03:53:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

@ Richie Cruz

Are you done with your homeless guy then?

At 1/12/2023 04:04:00 PM, Blogger Richie Cruz said...

After 12 years of public school and 4 years of college, I only need a few fingers to count the teachers I had that actually inspired me in any way.

Poets inspired me, authors inspired me, philosophers inspired me, musicians inspired me, actors inspired me, even a few athletes have inspired me.

Teachers? Shit, I couldn't gleam anything off of them I couldn't read in a friggin book from the library.

Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!

At 1/12/2023 04:19:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

Not taking the bait, double chin.

At 1/12/2023 04:33:00 PM, Blogger Richie Cruz said...

You do know by actually telling me you're not taking the bait, you're really proving that you are most definitely taking the bait.

I mean, you're a teacher, right? And you can't figure this out?

At 1/12/2023 04:46:00 PM, Blogger Hayo said...

Did I react to anything you said? None of the generic crap you are spewing applies to me, or is for that matter true. Are you sure you are not Chilibilly?

At 1/12/2023 04:53:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

Wait, hold on everyone. Hayo, I think Richie has something to say that is not at all insulting or belittling. How many teachers were really "inspiring"? As a professor, I have to say it is damn hard to inspire. I think a person has to be dedicated to inquiry and learning well beyond teaching anything. First and foremost is the work, the subject, the content, in my case philosophy and ecology. I would not have responded to Richie the way I did if I had fully understood him. I would also be hesitant, from basic human humility, to say that I "inspire" students! Damn, that is just too damn pretentious.

Sorry Richie, a real misunderstanding. I appreciate your comments very much as it respects excellence.

Hayo- I maintain my rich respect for all dedicated teachers and learners.

At 1/12/2023 06:40:00 PM, Blogger The Metamorphic Rocker said...

I was gonna sit this one out, and I’m glad I didn’t snap back at Ritchie right away as I initially wanted to. Ritchie’s experiences are his own and no one can erase them. However…. Abner, if you did misunderstand what Ritchie was saying, it was because he made a reckless—and frankly harmful— sweeping statement. As far as I’m concerned, the new talk about “inspiration” reads like walking it back— or, if I’m feeling less charitable, moving the goalposts—after perhaps realizing one has overstepped the mark.

Ritchie has made two distinct statements on educators. Neither statement cancels out the other. The first, advising people to run far and fast from anyone in the teaching profession, can easily be construed as suggesting teachers are dangerous, insidious people, maybe even predators, to the children and young people they work with. As someone with family and friends in the field, this implication is beyond insulting. It is downright inflammatory, even if every teacher Ritchie ever had was apathetic and useless.

I really don’t like to presume bad faith, but I also find it difficult to fully disregard was what initially said. At best, it was a careless choice of words.

As I have said, people I love are teachers, as are some of my heroes and folks who did the most for me during times when I was growing and vulnerable. Teaching is among the noblest professions. It’s also a deeply challenging, exhausting field. As this discussion shows, teachers tend to receive little credit and way too much unfair blame for all kinds of crap, a lot of it completely made up or imagined.

It’s sad that so many people didn’t have a better experience in school. At the same time, to be “inspiring” is a hell of a lot to expect from anyone. Even the teachers who truly helped me I would hesitate to call “inspiring”. The reality is more mundane. In other words, teachers are humans, too.

Briefly on the broader topic of the thread, I am not interested in re-litigating either the merits of vaccination or the Rogan tempest-in-a-teapot with this same group of people. It’s clear where folks stand and I don’t see anyone changing their mind or learning from simply rehashing the discourse.

At 1/12/2023 09:50:00 PM, Blogger Abner Snopes said...

MR- I was extending the principle of charity as far as possible because I was trying to defuse some of this. Maybe we should switch the discussion to mathematical axioms? We would get agreement!


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