Comment of the Moment: Where Did We Go From There?
Where Do We Go Now ...
or Where Did We Go From There?
December 2012
(Note: Photo not Photoshopped)
This post falls into the category of uncategorizable and a departure from standard Thrasher's Wheat fare.
It is a comment from a 2009 on a post of an audio clip of National Lampoon's 1970's parody called "Southern California Brings Me Down" and is a classic mash up of some of Neil Young's well known songs.
So why here and why now?
Well, we stumbled across this whole topic after some Weird Al Yankovic detour and we were debating with thrashette whether this National Lampoon parody of Neil Young started the whole trend. We never really resolved the issue because as we scrolled through the comments we came across one that really struck us.
Here it is almost 2023 and a comment ~15 years old still rings true with resonance today.
So, without further ado, our TW Comment of the Moment: Where Did We Go From There? by Richard, Glasgow. UK :
So why here and why now?
Well, we stumbled across this whole topic after some Weird Al Yankovic detour and we were debating with thrashette whether this National Lampoon parody of Neil Young started the whole trend. We never really resolved the issue because as we scrolled through the comments we came across one that really struck us.
Here it is almost 2023 and a comment ~15 years old still rings true with resonance today.
So, without further ado, our TW Comment of the Moment: Where Did We Go From There? by Richard, Glasgow. UK :
I know that when news is thin there must be a temptation to fill this site with anything at all but I don't think tribute and parody acts should have any place here.
I've been a major Neil Young fan since I was 17 which is fast approaching forty years ago. I've been here long enough to know that there are ups and downs to appreciating Neil. I'm smart enough to know that "Fork in The Road" is a piece of crap and that Archives 1 are not all that we might have hoped for. However I have, as always, travelled to the USA and all over my native UK during the last couple of years to see Neil in concert. These recent shows, while superb, were "greatest hits" performances and left me a little disappointed that I was not being challenged the way I have been many times down the years since I first saw Neil at Green's Playhouse in Glasgow in 1973 when he hit us with "Tonights the Night".
That said I remain a devoted fan who would prefer the discussion on on this site to be about Neil and to be extended into worthwhile comment on people who respect and are influenced by his work.
For example, I went to see Kathleen Edwards recently. There were about 100 people in the club. She was superb. She has released 3 wonderful albums. She's a Neil fan - you can hear it in her music. She sang "Only Love Can Break Your Heart" as her encore. I spoke with her afterwards. She is in awe of Neil, yet her career is fizzling out because she can't get enough exposure. Perhaps this site should be mentioning people like her rather than highlighting some dumb pastiche by Jimmy Fallon.
Also for example, earlier this year I saw Wilco in Malaga, Spain. They were wonderful. Of course they have supported Neil and played The Bridge concerts. Jeff Tweedy is a big Neil fan and has more to offer to those of us interested in Neil than National Lampoon.
As I finished this off my lady friend tells me that Nora Jones, who doesn't interest me much, has a new CD out which is evidently a bit more lively than her previous. She's also giving interviews in which she's talking about how much she is enjoying listening to Zuma at the moment.
Ryan Adams is also on her CD which reminds me of Stephen King's comment "I'm not sure if Ryan Adams is the finest North American singer/songwriter since Neil Young but I'm not sure he isn't either".
Come on Thrasher we don't need joke acts and Pearl Jam to keep discussion and interest in Neil going, there are lots of seriously gifted artists out there we could be talking about.
So after reading this comment by Richard in Glasgow from 15 years ago, it really got us thinking about the future of TW.
We've covered so much and it has been such a wonderful trip. But for us this has always been about the concert experience. The albums, bootlegs, videos, etc are all secondary.
It's been over 3 years since a Neil Young concert and there's serious debate on whether we will ever see Neil Young perform live again. Let's all face it ... the last full blown Crazy Horse tour possibility is fading fast.
With the various stipulations that Neil has made about performing, it seems doubtful unless there's some acceptance of practical reality. Hey, we're all for standing on principle. And if Neil is true to his word and principle, he will likely never tour again in any conventional sense.
So then what becomes of TW going forward? If a blog founded on the live concert experience with real time updates from fans around the world is no longer relevant, do we just pack it in and buy a pickup?
Avery Fisher Hall, New York City, NY, April 24, 2011
(see The Emotional Resonance That Is
Labels: neil young
by thrasher@PermaLink: 12/18/2022 11:08:00 AM
25 comments
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25 Comments:
Dear Thrasher & Thrashette,
I for one hope that you do not shut up the shop, although I appreciate that everything comes to an end someday.
I visit TW most days in order to find out news about Neil etc. Live concerts are for me very much secondary to the albums, bootlegs etc. I have not been to a concert for several years - a combination of my age, 72, a reluctance to pay huge costs - ticket plus travel etc, and an unwillingness to share the experience with increasingly rowdy drunken souls who shout or scream at the beginning and end of any song and often continue throughout. It is far better and more enjoyable in my view to actually listen to the music and appreciate it.
I do not relish what I have previously described as the pseudo-philosophical ramblings about Neil's music from some of your commentators, but I don't need to read them.
I do appreciate some of the more thoughtful critiques of Neil's music (Scotsman take a bow), but videos of unboxing a set of CDs is as interesting and informative as watching paint dry, and less valuable.
Part of the problem may be that NYA now provides a vital source of all things Neil and if you are looking for an easier life or retirement you certainly deserve it.
Whatever you decide may I thank you for all of the informative and interesting material you have provided for so long about Neil. Maybe many of us - me certainly - are reaching the age where it is time to look back on the wonderful music Neil, Bob, Pink Floyd et al have provided over the years and marvel at the occasional diamonds that emerge from the mines, or their new creations, when they are worth listening to. I echo Richard's comments in the sense that I think World Record (apart from Chevrolet) is a piece of crap. But it is not to late for the muse to return.
Time to go before I am criticised for my views about philosophy (my first class degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Cambridge not being known to other commentators until today) and because I don't like World Record.
Thank you. Au revoir
Hi Julia,
I think I am one of those people you have called "pseudo-philosophical," etc. We have been down this road and it is simply not very nice and yet you have said it once again.
So while you are preening over your "first class degree" in Philosophy (and the others) from Cambridge, I have not and won't do this (although I could). I will say that I have been publishing in the field for thirty years.
Did it ever occur to you that when people write about Neil, they are trying to say things that will connect to others while at the same time trying to deliver something thoughtful? You clearly come off as a condescending person and so, as with the type, you bottom out quickly.
Yes Thrasher, with that said, there is going to be so much more Neil to discuss, especially as we can recall and describe so many highlights. It will take a very long time to comprehend the quality of recent records. Describing World Record as "trash" is unfortunate, especially when no reasons are given. Late Neil is going to take a long time to settle into consciousness.
Please keep it going, too many things to discuss. I am just hitting on one topic.
I second the calls for serious discussion of NY’s output, utterances, biography (yes, that too), paraphernalia, influences etc. etc.
Here are my few cents.
I am a bookish person. A bit weird, but not really harmful. I don’t think other people should be like me. But it defines my outlook on life and the world. As many academics, I have an ambiguous relationship to rock writing. Most of it is too uncritical, breathtakingly descriptive, and basically scratching surfaces. On the other end of the spectrum, I have been looking for academic literature on Neil Young and discovered there is very little of it (as opposed to Bob Dylan or Miles Davis). I hear you thinking: why do we need academics to defile our hero, and you are perfectly right, we don’t, but still the absence is remarkable. The best writing on NY is journalist’s stuff, or some of the contributions on this site, and often somewhat lacking in biographical and intellectual analysis (that is: NY’s biography and intellect).
In my country of residence, the Netherlands, there is a famous 19th-century novel called Max Havelaar, which contains a funny episode in which the narrator rummages in a chest of paperwork bequeathed to him (you know this is 19th century novel stuff) and stumbles upon a sheer endless list of topics that the former owner of the chest wanted to write about. This list has turned into a Dutch expression, the Parcel of Shawlman. It contains a listing of the most outrageous and desultory topics.
Perhaps in the same vein as this obscure, almost Dickensian Shawlman, over the years I have been collecting thoughts about topics I would like to hear more about in things re: NY, and hardly could find anywhere. Most of those are not dealt with by Neil Youngs biographers, who mainly stick to the events and the music, the breakups and the breakdowns, and do not really venture into the world behind it. (Even though Jimmy Mcdonough’s book comes close; it is a classic and makes a compelling read.)
Although many here seem to be reluctant to discuss NY’s private life, I cannot understand how we should get a grip on his music and lyrics without a glance behind the front door. He is one of the most autobiographical songwriters around, so why shouldn’t we be able or allowed to respectfully discuss his life? F.i. I would say his not so recent change of partners has left a fairly deep imprint, so why not discuss that? I look forward to your positions on this matter.
--to be continued below
-2-
So here we go, semi-sensically:
*Neil Young and books (did he ever mention reading a book or being inspired by it? In his home pictures I see many very old-fashioned furniture (see below under ‘taste’), but hardly any books. Still, he wrote a few himself, which not really betray a huge knowledge of composition and may be without model).
*Neil Young and politics (a tricky one).
*Neil Young and sex (o.k. we don’t know and we don’t want to know, but I find his references to sex somewhat muted. A fairly decent fellow, text-wise (“those magazines at night”). More beer than b**bs. Or rather, he refers little to his own arousal (“but she still gets me hot” is about the most explicit -- But look! the extra verse in Surfer Joe).
*Neil Young and God (who is accountable for this mess?).
*Neil Young as a farmer.
*Neil Young and race (he’s an old white guy after all, and so are most of his fans).
*Neil Young and rednecks (see above). Why is he attractive to the people I would want the least to be associated.
*Neil Young and (good) taste. No clues here.
*Neil Young and movies (well, here we have at least a few clues).
*Neil Young and humour (often fairly lame and herbed, as far as I can see, but some find it hilarious I guess).
*Neil Young and American Indians (or: Neil Young and cultural appropriation).
*Neil Young and male bonding (yes, I read Kim Gordon’s excellent “Girl in a band” recently).
*Neil Young and rationality (just curious).
*Neil Young and Asia (Pearl Jam is widely famous in Asia. Why did NY never play beyond Japan and Hong Kong?).
*Neil Young and art (he raised an artist, so how?).
*Neil Young and sports.
*Neil Young as an admirer (which is so much part of his character).
*Neil Young and maj7 harmonies.
*Neil Young and capitalism (/big business/big businessmen) (just asking).
*Neil Young and (post)coloniality (conquest is a romantic but ambivalent trope: TransAm, Cortez).
*Neil Young and not-4/4 beat.
*Neil Young and food (raw stringbeans ?).
*Neil Young and handwriting.
Etc etc
Other requests?
Not: cars, dogs, Elvis, carbon fuel, drugs, vaccines, Orangeman (except under: capitalism).
So if there is a future biographer lurking here: have a go at it. There is a voracious consumer here.
Cheers to all. Have a nice year’s end.
outstanding suggestions!
@ everybody - thanks for this valuable input as we plot a path fwd into 23 and beyond.
we're going to refrain from specific replies just yet as we struggle to complete our annual year in review. This year's seems more difficult than all previous years. Maybe the lack of concerts? It's always hard to make arrangements for yourself, ya know.
Please continue to contribute here on thoughts. It is most appreciated. We'll be back soon.
As many of you know, we welcome contributions of all sorts. Some work, some don't. If you have something to contribute, please get in touch at thrasher@thrasherswheat.org
As we commented recently on another thread that ventured to negativity, in the immortal words of a great historical figure ...
"Ask not what the rustie grains Neil community can do for YOU,
but what YOU can do for the rustie grains Neil community."
@ Thrasher : I love TW for the variety in topics also. I think TW is highly relevant, tour or not. I hope you keep it going!
Don’t rule out NY touring. Keep the faith. We will meet up in Boise to see NY yet. I can ‘t demand you continue, but there seems to be new Neil stuff happening all the time.
World Record IS a classic. Some people look through a negative lens. That is sad. Squandering a gift of fresh tunes!
The many live albums, Bootlegs, & timeline gigs on the way do count for live shows, in my view.
We collect these shows for good reason. They continue to inspire. They are Art History, at our fingertips to enjoy.
Will Young is a powerhouse rocker, a unique genius we have been so lucky to enjoy together. So far!
Your Brother Alan in Seattle
Correction : That’s “Neil Young” not Will Young, or “Willie Neil” for that matter!
As long as Neil is still with us, and releasing stuff, then I would hope that we would still have thoughts to share. And Thrashers Wheat is such a wonderful place to join together and communicate our feelings, I would hope that it would continue. But this site has been working for a long time, and if Thrasher has had enough, then I support him in his decision to let it go. Personally I enjoy visiting here, and adding to the conversation. And I would definitely be disappointed if the site was gone. I also feel that Neil would be disappointed if the site was gone as well. This is one of only a handful of music sites I spend any of my time on, and my hope is that we will all continue to enjoy Thrashers Wheat for years to come. Be it concerts, albums, videos, books, etc. etc. etc. If it’s Neil Young related, then we’ll all have something to say about it. Hopefully we will be able to say it here on the Wheat.
Peace 🙏
Dear Thrasher,
I pretty much agree with all of the above. I regularly check your site and read the comments, and generally find the content very interesting (though am not such a fan of the conspiracy-theory disCERNment stuff, but I accept it is your site and you can post whatever you like). We could probably postulate endlessly over many issues which might be fun, or might just end up as random speculation ("Does Neil Young like cats? Well i get the feeling the protagonist in Old Laughing Lady probably has a cat, so I think he does. I have a pHd in musicology and zoology so am almost certainly right", etc.)
Equally I think it's great that we can disagree (mostly) respectfully about whether Neil's new music is good or not. Or his old music for that matter! I happen to believe that Storytone and Peace Trail are utter embarrassments, but I hate 'Motorcycle Mama' even more so, each to their own. However my love for most of Neil's other music more than makes up for it and he has earned the right to do what he likes - just as you have with Thrashers Wheat.
It must be exhausting creating new content when there is less going on with Neil, and especially moderating comments. If you want to post less frequently or make the site dormant for a while, that would be just fine - perhaps just coming back when there are significant new releases (such as Archives Vol III...) Indeed, you could just retire and we would all understand.
Neil might never play live again and that too would be fair enough, if a massive shame. I saw Bob Dylan in London last month and it was immense - these old legends are just so talented and inventive and live music is always best. But hey, I'm not sure I would fancy all the longhaul flights and jetlag and constant displacement if I was in my 70s or 80s as they are.
So, all the best as you weigh things up my friend. I'm just glad you are well, that your home is repaired, and that all of us here (as far as I can tell) have survived the covid epidemic and we are well on the way back to normality. Why not take a month off over Christmas and have a real think about things?
Merry Christmas Thrasher and Thrashette, and to all of us, stay safe and best wishes!
Thos x
Again, we'll refrain from replies until we better collect our thoughts.
And, again, thanks so much everyone here for sharing.
It is this collective spirit which will carry us forward into the new year and hopefully much further on our Journey Through The Future.
Keep on blogging till the power goes out. Or don't. You've been a wonderful source of information, and have always been kind to me and my efforts.
Dear Thrasher & Thrashette,
Firstly let me send heartfelt thanks to you both for all the hard work you have done over the years on this site. Without this site to visit everyday my following of Mr. Young would be quite different and needless to say not nearly as rich. So whatever you decide be true to yourselves, but know I would be sorry to see you go.
Regarding content I hear you regrading "Live music better!" but I also relate to @julia and the view that the current concert experience is not what it used to be - here is a good book on the subject for those interested https://www.google.com/books/edition/Rock_Concert/_P8_EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover.
For me Neil's records, boots etc are all part of the same song and are all worth discussing and exploring here at Thrasher Wheat. In particular bootlegs, while a future discussion can get into the ethics etc. of boots, the Neil Young experience would not be the same without them, especially before the advent of the internet and the only way to hear non released songs was by seeking this audience recordings etc out. I will never forget the time I found Old Man's Fancy at Camden Lock (back when it was still a street market) https://www.discogs.com/release/3194386-Neil-Young-Old-Mans-Fancy. It was the only why to hear Neil '76 tour and included two tracks from the Ducks summer tour.
Lastly for folks influenced by Neil there are many I would add the great Israel Nash - his Across The Water is a brilliant live album and a tour I caught here in Morro Bay a few years back $10.00 at the Siren - fantastic. https://www.israelnash.com/music
So thanks again Thrasher for all you work over the years and if your looking for content I am happy to try and help out.
All the best. Kevin D. in Morro Bay
@Abner, Not the appropriate forum per se, but I'd like to deconstruct that term--"pseudo-philosophy"--somewhere along the line, to test how much substance it holds, appeals to authority notwithstanding. Even a cursory investigation suggests there are many philosophers with different ideas about what is pseudo-.
Apart from anything else, I personally have no pretensions here of "doing" philosophy in any formal sense. The implicit accusation of false pretenses therefore seems misplaced. Speaking for myself, all this just means that my contributions are not something they were never trying to be.
If anything, the nature of a blog-post is willfully hybrid: part criticism (which can be argued as a form of applied philosophy), part personal reflection. If we have to classify, I'm much more at ease thinking of this as a form of creative non-fiction. Thrasher's site allows space for just this sort of hybrid form, which is precisely what I would miss most if this site were no longer active.
@Minke--Congratulations, you have added to my ever-expanding reading list. Who would have thought one would pick up Dutch classics and post-colonialism from a Neil Young blog? Fascinating stuff. This, children, is the value of open, loosely-structured discourse, wherein we can share fresh ideas with one another on a basis more of free association than one of rigorous adherence to formal rules.
MR, I agree with you. and I am not "doing philosophy" on this site either, yikes. Formal philosophy? Not a good idea.
@ Thrasher : I hope that you feel that there is no pressure on you to post frequently, or address only certain topics. I am encouraging you, Thrasher, to only put in as much energy as you want to. Your faithful readers will continue to benefit from your blog at whatever level of activity you apply.
Thank you so much for doing the TW blog. I find it scary that my favorite blog, my favorite place on the internet to visit, could halt activity. But the reason it would be so missed is also a reason to celebrate it as it exists today; it’s a damn good Neil Young blog, ok, the Best NY blog in the world.
I believe there is SO Much to the Neil Young universe that TW would continue to provide relevant articles & provide great joy to us Hardcore (and other) NY fans. I think NY is grateful for your work here, Thrasher, and we all are, certainly. I know it is horrible to look at a world with no planned NY concerts; it is disturbing to lose that magnificent magical stage where Neil would step out and OWN the crowd, and blow us away with his song choices and delivery.
Mortality is inconvenient as we seek out more Art from the mind of the Master painter (and his instruments), as we always have in the past. I don’t want this party to end!
The Truth is, even if Neil decides to “retire” -things could change! He could change his mind. He seems inclined to continue to make new Art. I would like to hear it, and hear about it from all of you!
Your Bro, Alan in Seattle
I hope you find that you want to continue.
To me, my appreciation of Neil's music vibrates somewhere on a continuum between being able to - very rarely - go to live concerts, hearing his new and old album releases, my own playing of Neil's songs, and hearing his tunes played by others. I think that will continue in varying degrees for what's left of my life. But if your main focus is live events, and you feel they are gone for good and the magic's missing and never returning, I understand you questioning things.
Just know: many people will miss you, your insights, the comments of others on Neil, and everything else this website provides, a whole lot if it's gone!
Let it go, Thrasher. You've done a great service here for many years and you owe nothing to anyone. Honestly bro, ride off into the sunset with your better half and move on to other things.
I don't want to get into how I feel about present day Neil, cuz I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but if Neil is done with live music, then I find it totally understandable why you would want to move on, and I don't blame you.
@ Thrasher : If Neil gets to retire, then so should you be able to with your blog, if it is your desire.
I would miss it enormously, but your ongoing blog efforts should be for reasons you enjoy and like.
You have put up with a lot of shit (even from me!). You have taken abuse from rude individuals & been very tolerant of free speech.
I would have folded up eons ago, because I haven't got what it takes to run this blog! You are free, my friend, as free as we can be.
There is a field. I will meet you there (for the gig & the party).
Many Happy Returns. Thank you! Happy Holidays. Peace.
Your Brother Alan in Seattle
Dear Thrasher and Thrashette,
The other regulars have said it all already with regards to this being your blog and how much they appreciate it, so I have not much to add in this direction other than I feel the same.
But I found Minke’s list most inspiring, although I am sure that the personal life issue is difficult to handle as to avoid emotional interference.
For many Europeans records, movies, bootlegs are absolutely not secondary not just because we spent a lot of money on them but because there have been 1842 shows with Neil Young in the US but a mere 72 in (West-) Germany. The UK saw 67, combined with the Irish Republic Neil Young played 82 shows there. France, Belgium and The Netherlands are about in the same league (Numbers provided by Sugar Mountain). Sure, the US is larger than all these countries combined and travelling from East to West Coast is prohibitive for most fans, but I recall numerous posts here and elsewhere when contributors (Californians mostly) mentioned that they had been to Neil Young concerts as if it were a movie weekend attraction. So Neil Young must have something to his name beyond the frequent concert sensation that attracts his fans around the world.
Since I came out of lurkdom (first subscribing to the original rust list many years ago and later your blog for even longer by now) I occasionally tried to point out that Europeans might have a different perspective on the man. Again Minke’s list appears to be supporting my thoughts, some of his ideas or issues are mirroring mine. So where would we go? The times when you were meeting up with friends to discuss their record collection (Yes, I did that…) are definitely over. Your blog is one of the few niches where some of it survived. Statues and monuments should be erected and bumper stickers issued: Wheat’s going on!
Dionys : I may be that Californian. Only been in Seattle since late 1990’s.
Seeing a Neil Young show for me is like having a religious experience. It is major. Like a pilgrimage. I don’t do sports or non music events much. Yes, as far as Neil Young shows, I am a lucky bastard and I have been known to boast about it. It’s my favorite Art, and I LOVE it. As Thrasher has noticed on occasion, I am passionate about NY. Hell, I snuck into 2 NY shows, wouldn’t you laugh about it here if it was you?
Been to hundreds of shows, many bands. That was all time well spent. I can’t blame anyone for wishing they had been able to see more live NY shows. We won’t begrudge anyone who got to see him x # of times. If they got to see him play, they took part in the magic, hearing the music and performing talent of Neil Young. Glad we all got to drink from the well. Sorry if we got the lion’s share.
And more to come from the Artist who cannot be told what to do! (although DH may have helped us get Homegrown, Toast, and TFA on CD(!).
I love what you have to say in your posts, Dionys.
Your bro Alan….
Thrasher —
The abundance of comments above are ample evidence that your work here would be missed if it were gone.
(And of course, the comments are just the tip of the iceberg compared to the people who read but don't comment.)
Lots of people with very different personalities, views, interests, writing styles, opinions, gifts.... And your website brings them together. No small thing.
So my opinion is that you are doing exactly the right thing by not leaping to a decision.
I know from the experience that times of stress are when its most tempting to make big decisions. But they're also when we're most likely to make mistakes — because instead of us overwhelming the issue at hand, *it* overwhelms *us*.
Maybe you already know whether it's right to carry on... Or maybe you just need more time to come to terms with it. Either way, the key thing is not to mistake a fleeting sense of discouragement for a permanent one.
Happy Christmas/holidays to you, and to all the readers here at Thrasher's Wheat.
Scotsman.
I would certainly miss this blog if wasn't here anymore, but you should do what is right for you, not what I or anyone else want. If you don't enjoy it any more or as much as before it would be perfectly natural for you to want to stop. It must take up a lot of your time and time is precious to us all and in the end finite.
If you do decide to continue I am personally happy to read anything you feel you want to post. It's your blog - follow your heart.
If you decide to not continue I will be eternally grateful for all that you have done - it's been part of my daily routine to check the site for new posts and comments for about 20 years I think. Thank you so much.
@ Alan
I did not have anyone personally in mind, but think about all of you people who are closer to the source with benevolent envy. My point was and is that Neil Young is obviously about music in all its incarnations and Thrasherswheat is about Neil Young fandom in all its incarnations although "being on the rail" is as close as most of us will ever get. There are a few things that one can dream up that are even closer, but we all know fandom entitles you to nothing. That's true for the grains also.
Once again, many thanks to everyone here in comments for the feedback, encouragement and support.
Our gift to you -- the rustie grains -- is here @
Neil Young's 2022 Year in Review: The Year of The Harvest 50th Anniversary & So Much More
peace & love,
thrashers
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