Video & Comment of the Moment: Winnipeg, Nov 16, 2012
Neil Young & Crazy Horse
The MTS Centre, Winnipeg, Nov 16, 2012
Followed by these Comments of the Moment by fan Ted St. Godard:
Let me start by saying I love NY, always have, always will. Seen him multiple times, multiple venues, multiple configurations. Last night it was Winnipeg, the Alchemy show.Followed by reply from SD:
Make no mistake, it was, as billed, a Crazy Horse show. There were some highs, not least of which was seeing Ben Young sitting at a Bridge School table. And the new songs, magnificent. Walk Like a Giant was terrific, and likewise Ramada Inn. The oldies were nice, especially Powderfinger.
Neil certainly appeared to be enjoying himself, and good for him, but, and here's the but: I'm sorry to say that there was just way too much self-indulgent choking of the proverbial chicken, not to mention every song included a belaboured circle jerk. We get it Neil, you like feedback, and you like making your guitar sound more like thunder than anything else. And when you ride the Horse you're playing to each other. We love that, but enough is enough.There's a great big stage, step away from Frank and Billy, you can stroke each other after.
When an album of song-ending feedback is offered, we can politely say "no thanks," but in live show, when we want more of what we know you've got, end the bloody tune, wipe your brow, smile for the nice people, and play on.
My 19 year old son hit it on the head when he leaned to me during another prolonged outro, and said, "he's beating a dead horse again."
That said, the encore of Roll Another Number, was magnificent, some of the vocal moments were Neil at his best (some would say weakest, but we who love him feel otherwise), and there were some beautiful, melodic solos, during which, for a minute or two, NY actually faced the audience. And they more than made up for the painful, and frankly, embarrassing parts. I'd go again tonight if I could.
Neil is never going to please everyone.
The best you can do before going to a show is educate yourself about what the show is going to be like. We live in the internet/instant-access/youtube age - you have a wealth of information at your fingertips to help you decide what to spend your money on.
My only Neil experience has been with the Electric Band in 2009. It was awesome, but it wasn't Crazy Horse either. But I'm sure at that show other fans were even happier to hear the hits played - as was I, but I knew regardless that Crazy Horse would be the pinnacle of a live show.
It's the nature of the beast, and it's the reason why it is pointless to say things like "if only Neil would do this instead" to please you. It would be impossible for Neil to tailor his setlist to fan expectations or needs.
Who is the 'fan' he needs to tailor it to?
Should he be up there at 67 years old for 5 hours making sure each and every fan leaves happy? If he plays solely a 'greatest hits' list, what does he say to the hardcore who want to hear deep cuts? If he plays a lot of electric what does he say to the fans who want more acoustic? Vice versa? How does he reconcile recording new music, being into it fully, wanting to perform it live, with fans who complain about hearing too many new songs? How does he reconcile doing what he, as the artist who fans are paying to see, as the creator of the art they pay to see, wants to do with his art while he is on stage?
It's a lose-lose scenario - which is why the best way to view any show is to appreciate what you get to witness - whether it is perfect to your liking, or not. It's foolish to continually expect or search for perfection in an artist, and pointless to reduce your live experience to positives & negatives. The whole experience deserves more than that, and more than an endless search for what to critique and what to find fault in.
I thank my lucky stars I was able to see an artist who has impacted my life perform in a live setting, when so many others I will never get a chance to see.
It is and always will be different things to different people. We should be so lucky we get to enjoy a person who, at 67 years old, still elicits such emotions.
Many, many sincere thanks to both Ted & SD for their thoughtful comments.
To which we say, well ... Jack Black holding this sign kinda gets to the heart of the matter regarding freedom...
Neil said...
"Just do what you want to do
Don't listen to anyone else"
(Jack Black w/ sign)
Neil Young Honored As MusiCares Person Of The Year
Strange things -- indeed -- do happen when the worlds of art and commerce collide. Don't believe us? See for your self what can happen for the turnstiles or the value of artistic freedom, audience entitlement, and elite fan hypocrisy.
waging heavy wheat,
peace
ps - so what do you think?
Labels: art, commerce, crazy horse, neil young, review, video
by thrasher@PermaLink: 11/18/2012 09:50:00 AM
24 comments
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24 Comments:
Don't really want to see another thread about audience expectation on a Neil Young tour, this has been done to death on this "fan" site. Any Neil Young fan should know to expect the unexpected...
Anyone else think that we're due a clunker of an album from NY soon, (in the vein of Old Ways, Are You Passionate? or Prairie Wind among others) 6 or 7 years without a bad album is very un-Neil Young-like?
2006's Living With War through to 2012's PP has been exceptional.
Holy hell, if you don't love Neil you're just taking up valuable space in the venue. Quit whining and get out.
Buy the blue ray version of the PILL for the bonus track 'Horse BAck' it's 37 minutes long - superb.
Question: What's the difference between "Horse Back" and "Drifting Back"?
About 10 minutes or so .. sorry, couldn't help that ..
It was the first sign that the Horse had been let out ofvthe barn. It's still on NYTimes in Lo-res I think.
Horseback is that little film of the Horse noodling their way toward this year's reunion, the one with low lighting and views of the control room, the mixing boards, cables, and eventually into the studio and pictures of the amps and axes and stuff. As an old studio rat I am kinda psyched if this IS on the bluray...
@anon 10:20 - some would nominate "Fork in the Road." (And I personally would defend "Prairie Wind.")
remember what he told Patti about the rabbit? just be patient, eh?
Since '07, I've seen each tour someplace and have been richly rewarded with some amazing moments ... even A Day In The Life as an encore, Ambulance Blues, Helpless, both My My and Hey Hey, Old Man and Heart of Gold, No Hidden Path (omg-watched him play that through some nice optics to see how he works that ol' guitar-wicked), and my personal favorite: Cortez in some old and new ways (saw le Noise show two years in a row)... and now I'm really looking forward to seeing the Horse for the first time with Billy's Big Notes, they'll blow the roof off the Boston Garden ... the set list is known to me, wouldn't change too much myself, I even own Arc and Weld so those long endings are all part of the ride - the point is just that he eventually really HAS gotten around to almost everything one would wish, so I'm just gonna sit behind the tree and watch and wait and dig it - see y'all in Boston
Good response in support of the Young muse. It strikes me that way too many people attend shows with a feeling of entitlement...they paid X and they want to hear Y because they deserve it. Rather, you pay for the opportunity to hear whatever the artist is about this time around. The current show will be a memory soon enough, so let's hear what's new. His book is very insightful, too, I think, once you realize what you're in for. Never progressing in an expected way, obsessive about his passions. I understand why he balked at the staid, analytical account of his life in Shakey.
Hank E
@ anonymous 10:20 - If an upcoming album is as good as Old Ways, I can't wait! I've always thought it was a masterpiece!!!! :D
We should all relish the thought and opportunity to see Neil Young and Crazy Horse in concert. Are you kidding me? These guys are blasting out pure Rock and Roll like they're 30 years old and people are complaining about what songs they're playing. Get real folks. There's no sideshow, circus, carnival or magic show like this tour. THIS IS THE REAL THING, unadulterated CRAZY HORSE with fresh feed and fresh legs, thundering across the fruited plain.
Bruce is still doing it, maybe the Who too. Rolling Stones? Not that much happening there either. McCartney, yeah ok, almost reaching it all.
Most oldsters of rock and roll can not reach the pinnacle or the sound of their past glories like Crazy Horse is doing. I retired from seeing Bob Dylan a few years back after seeing him twice in a row and he never even picked up a guitar, played keyboards all night. What a dissapointment. And I love Bob Dylan. But I ain't gonna work on Maggies farm no more for him.
So, all ye naysayers, suck it up, shut it up and understand that it ain't about your limited idea of who Neil Young is. Unlock your mind ya know, see what you can see, send in the postage, he'll mail ya back the key
Ha! Went on a bit of a tangent/rant there, and made it to the main news page. How proud!
But it is the discussion included with the news that makes this site so great.
Keep it up everyone!
First: anybody - and I do mean anybody - who writes a post on thrasher and complains about too much feedback, complains about the band playing too close together, complains about the wrong setlist is one of two things: 1. a troll; or 2. an idiot. There is no inbetween. Nobody just stumbles on this site and writes a post - please. There are no surprises anymore with the internet, youtube etc.... So unless you live in the woods somewhere, do not have electricity, or are stuck in 1972, then going to a show in 2012 and being surprised - or disappointed - by what is being played means that you are either a troll or an idiot.
So why do so many of you insist on reacting to obvious trolling or insist on responding to people who an idiot.
looking forward to a wall of sound on saturday. cheers.
What a perfect outro on Cinnamon girl!Never heard this one.
"First: anybody - and I do mean anybody - who writes a post on thrasher and complains about too much feedback, complains about the band playing too close together, complains about the wrong setlist is one of two things: 1. a troll; or 2. an idiot. There is no inbetween." Gee, that's a great statement Anonymous - this is one of the reasons why I don't come to Thrasher's very much - there's too much of this kind of reaction to someone's opinion. That comment by the poster about the Winnipeg show sounded like someone's well-reasoned opinion of what matters to him. paul dionne
...Besides the fact that Ted St. Godard actually posts his own name, Anonymous....
@Paul - thanks for the note. Sorry that you don't find TW a place to visit often. :(
We try and keep the comments section a fun place to hang but its a fine line between deleting comments and freedom of speech. So its a tough call that we often err on the side of freedom of speech.
Mainly we try and let our readers determine what's in the community of interest by flagging items they'd like removed. It works out mostly.
Obviously, we can't control what folks write here and it is the internet afterall.
Well, hope to see you back here again someday.
It is sad Paul Dionne, that you no longer like to visit Thrasher's Wheat because people here react to what they perceive is ignorance on the part of the concert attendee, when, almost daily, we are subjected to a post(s) of complaints that are always the same: not enough hits, self-indulgent, too much feedback, people walked out...the list goes on and on, but it is always the same. Maybe "idiot" should be replaced with "ignorant", and Anonymous 8:36 could have expressed the same opinion a bit more eloquently, but I agree with Thrasher about free speech. Idioit or ingnorant, the same complaints everyday get old very fast. In today's tecnological world, a person would have to be living under a rock not to understand what they will be getting at a live Neil Young and Crazy Horse concert. In preparation, I have watched every video on YouTube, read reviews, listened to comments, and have completed my homework regarding what to expect next week in Boston. Indeed I understand, having followed Neil's career for 40 years (and I'm only 50), that with Neil and the Horse, I can also expect the unexpected, and be thrilled by it! If NY&CH want to play Psychedelic Pill in it's entirety in Boston, I'm on board for the wild ride! Expect the unexpected, but don't belittle the band because you did'nt get what YOU wanted. Maybe we are just sick of it, and strong language may keep the trolls away.
Anonymous 8:36 is correct in the statement that you just don't fall into a site like Thrasher's Wheat accidently, you deliberately visit to hear about the previous night's concert, or be lucky to get a video too. This site has a wealth of information regarding the current tour and an idea of what you can expect from a live concert. It is a fan site, and if you can tell a post is legitimate (you can), people are polite and often agree to disagree. People have a right to complain, but like most who visit daily, I find the minute the same complaint comes up again, I just skip to the next comment. It is often incomprehensible why a person would want to visit a fan site to lodge complaints...but hey, it's a free country. I expect NY&CH to rock my world, like they always have, in Boston next week.
One more thing Thrasher...it would be wonderful if the "Anonymous" button was removed, and we all had to give our real name. It might cut down on the trolls. Not afraid to say this is Barbara Wynn Malatesta!
from a lofty tower come those who dispense such vocabulary as "trolls" and "idiots". I am a die hard NY fan who will express my displeasure as I like, albeit in a cordial way. Come down off your towers all you reactionaries. Dont you see yourself falling into the trap everytime ? I find the new songs extremely repetitive and "beating a dead hose" is apt I think. In my mind he feels a need to write new material but all hes really doing is recycling old and frankly monotonous melodies. Ive seen 31 live shows and would go again but buy Psychedelic Pill ? Er, no thanks.
Celtglass I saw no ignorance on the part of Ted's preference. Even if someone knows absolutely nothing about Neil Young they should be able to reasonably state an opinion. What you state as "free speech" becomes to feel like bullying those who know oh so much less than you. I have been oh so disappointed by Neil in recent times, and now find great disappointment by people who claim to believe in Neil's ideals.
Why not just accept for what it is, a Neil Young and Crazy Horse concert, and enjoy the moment because there may not be many left!
GrungeMan
"He climbed the bank and cut up into the woods, toward the high ground. He was going back to camp. He looked back. The river just showed through the trees. There were plenty of days coming when he could fish the swamp."
--Ernest Hemingway from Big Two-Hearted River
And while the pot of culture's bubblesome
Praise poets even when they're troublesome
--Robert Lowell
Hey, I think Mr Henry here just gave us a true hint of where to look for Neil's muse.. Not that Neil read anything by Hemingway, probably (I mean, the guy confesses to not reading not at all, except Kansas road maps..) But here it is: the down to earth, sensitory, not reflective, metaphysics in a Hamburger Station, way of looking at things...
That's Neil for ya... Used to be idyllic (After the Grush), then mature (Comes A Time), ans now,well, strangely at peace but mainly maladjusted to old age...
Thank you for your insights my friend! Long may you run....
"So even if the sun were to rise from the west, the Bodhisattva has only one way. His way is in each moment to express his nature and his sincerity".
--Suzuki Roshi
Based on Ted St. Godard's comment, I don't think he's either a troll or an idiot, I think he distinguished himself pretty well from either designation by how obvious a fan he is, and his honesty about something he didn't like. I certainly didn't take away that he was trashing Neil, and he probably didn't anticipate his comments being put out there front and center. I get the frustration at the same old litany of complaints, and have been known to respond in kind myself, but I think there's a lot of room between troll and idiot, room enough for Neil fans to give honest opinions. I'm always amazed at the variety of people I see at the concerts, and people come from their own perspectives, so as long as it really is perspective, and not someone simply being mean spirited, I welcome the info and the view, especially as I won't be able to take any of the shows in.
A Freind Of Yours
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