Poll: Who's the greater songwriter? Bob Dylan or Neil Young?
OK, we admit this is downright silly.
A poll on "Who's the greater songwriter? Bob Dylan or Neil Young?" being run by K-Rock 98.7 - Gander, Newfoundland, Canada.
But we also admit that it does give us a chuckle and always seems to provoke some passionate debate. Which we seem to get a kick out of, as well.
Especially when you consider that it was this very question which served as the catalyzing foundation core page around which Thrasher's Wheat website was built back in the last century. There's quite a long backstory to the whole Bob Dylan and Neil Young saga.
Neil Young and Bob Dylan - 1986
Also, see:
- Bob Dylan Visits Neil Young's Winnipeg Home
- Top 10 Reasons Why Neil Young is Better Than Bob Dylan
- Top 10 Reasons Not to Goof With Bob Dylan Fans
- Bob Dylan and Neil Young: Master and B-Grade Disciple
UPDATE: From K-Rock 98.7 - Gander, Newfoundland, Canada:
Our Bob Dylan vs Neil Young weekend ran April 16th - 18th with the poll closing Monday the 19th and Neil coming out on top with 83% of the vote. Since, there has been much love for Dylan so we'll leave the poll and the debate open until Friday the 23rd.
by thrasher@PermaLink: 4/18/2010 09:07:00 AM
37 comments
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37 Comments:
Looks like Neil's kicking Bob here in the poll.
But its a canada radio station so you might expect that. Until the Dylan heads show up.
lol
FR
Neil and Bob....my two favorite artists, singers, poets, visionaries, players, writers, Enigmas, legends.
Who's better? Christ...what a question.
Its the same as asking whats better, an apple or an orange?
They are both greats...the best, but it's obviously a matter of opinion. No one would get all impassioned discussing apples and oranges but when it comes to musicians... like Neil and Bob...forget it.
Both have realized you have to change to survive. Both have made some bummer records yet both have soared to heights familiar to them alone.
Neil is basically the same artist he's always been- always great but has experimented so much that some of the results have been less then glamorous- such is the nature of experimentation. Without those 80's albums though, would we still be discussing Neil like we do today? Neil, of course is older, wiser than he was with the Springfield but Neil has not changed by constantly changing. Every album sounds different- there are no two alike and its the same now has its been since 'Neil Young' and 'Everybody Knows". I'm sorry but Harvest, Comes a Times, Harvest Moon, Silver and Gold, and Prairie Wind sound nothing alike. Just as every Crazy Horse album manages to sound different (I'm sure some will disagree). If Neil has never been the same twice then he's the same Neil he's always been.
Bob has pretty much changed his skin. He's a different person than the early 60's protest troubadour he started out as. Now he's like an old blues-man, whose experience and wisdom is etched into the lines on his face and the grainy, soulfulness of his voice. "Bob Dylan" sounds NOTHING like "Together Through Life" -a great record by the way.
Both I believe are as great as they've always been,equally,
although many will disagree with me here too. But whom is better is a matter of opinion, and this is mine.
Both fit a different mood and both fit moods you didn't think they would.
Both have explored every level of sadness, love, joy, death, confusion, hatred, and life in words and music.
Both Neil and Bob are as natural as the air we breath- generations have grown up with and on them. Through their very personal art we are able to identify, celebrate, and understand ourselves a little better. They are painters of our time- all the injustices, the love and the fear of the past 50 years are forever preserved in their songs.
I realize I've just used many adjectives and I may have contradicted myself once or twice but this is impossible to avoid when describing these two greats. They are each a universe unto themselves
Long my they BOTH run.
Neil is my favorite artist full stop. No close second. And you could argue its personal preference, I like vanilla you like chocolate, but I come down with clear conviction that in terms of pure "songwriting" abilities, Dylan is the man and nobody comes close. Neil has many distinguishing qualities, and he's a great songwriter, but Dylan is in his own league with songwriting ... Neil's command of his whole cannon and his ability to this day to play any song virtually as good or better than he ever has sets him apart as does lots of other things ... but Dylan in my book stands alone as a songwriter ...
Dan
Build me a cabin
in Utah
Marry me a wife
Catch rainbow trout
Have a bunch of kids
Who call me "Pa"
That must be
what it's all about
That must be
what it's all about
Bob......Sign on the Window
I've got faith in you
it's a razor love
that cuts clean through
You really make my day
with the little things
you say
Neil........Razor Love
I could have spent
every hour of my life
with the girl
from the Red River Shore
Bob...Girl from the Red River Shore
All her friends call her
Little Wing
She flies rings around them all
She comes to town
when the children sing
And leaves them feathers
when they fall
Neil......Little Wing
He not busy being born
Is busy dyin'
Bob......It's Alright Ma
Someday you'll find
Everything you're looking for
Neil......Bandit
As the old cliche goes, this is kind of like asking which of my children I love more...to be continued..............
Dylan sucks, with the exception of a couple of songs. Dylan might occasionally have the lyrical prowess, but his melodies and the prosody of his lyrics and melodies never mesh together perfectly like Neil's music so often does. In short: Neil Young wins at music.
Ding ding ding.
this again? will there ever be a true answer?
This is a photo finsh for the win. I think at different stages each has been more relevant than the other and overall each has an unparalleled body of work. There's a couple fighting it out for place and show (Lennon, Bruce, Townsend...)
Lately it's been difficult to hear Bob cause his voice is shot and it's unbearable to listen to so I can't judge his recent songs. Similarly, some of Neils recent songs have not measured as strong as previous work, though he has still put out some gems. As far as historical inspiration, it's gotta be Dylan based on the broad following and the broad appeal of some of his anthems that rank with Pete Seeger, Hank Williams and Woodie Guthrie stuff on the overall american lanscape of song writings. It's difficult to shortchange Neil on this, but numbers wise he has probably not reached the same amount of listeners and had the same influence on musicians of all styles. If that's a part of the barometer, Dylan scores higher. I've always thought that Bob wrote about it looking outside in and Neil wrote about it from inside out. If ya had twins could you really decide which one you ranked ahead of the other? Me neither.
The only other issue for me is that today I would not buy a ticket to see Bob Dylan again. And today I can't get one to see Neil Young. That says it all.
Only a fool would think there is an answer.
Gah...Can't there be a simple poll? Like, "Who's the greater songwriter? Eddie Money or Neil Young?"
Neil Young has been one of the most meaningful influences in my life. Like Dan said, there is no close second. If that's the key metric, Neil blows Dylan out of the water. (And I LOVE Dylan.)
But I can also say that, in terms of being a lyricist, Dylan wrote circles around Neil. (Even though Neil penned some of the greatest lines in history.)
"Although my problems are meaningless, but that don't make them go away" has to be one the simplest, best lines ever written.
"If I could hold on to just one thought for long enough to know, why my mind is moving so fast and the conversation is slow" evokes the essence of confusion better than anything I've ever heard.
And Neil tried his hand Dylan-esque obtuseness:
"Good lookin' Milly's
into politics now
And things are looking much better
She keeps ten men in her garage
Knitting her fine sweaters.
At the end of a weary day
She feels hard and she looks hard.
Although no one hears a sound
There's another poor man
falling down.
Falling down, falling down.
Falling down, falling down." (Okay, so waht does it MEAN??)
But I like his simple "truths" pregnant with nuggets of muse-fed meaning the most, such as:
"Lover,
there will be another one
Who'll hover
over you beneath the sun
Tomorrow
see the things
that never come
Today
When you see me
Fly away without you
Shadow on the things you know
Feathers fall around you
And show you the way to go
It's over, it's over."
Dylan is an extraordinary lyricist and good for my head, but somehow Neil gets to my heart better.
-jim
If you can't cut it, don't pick up the knife.
There's no reward in your conscience stored
When you're sleepin' with another man's wife.
Saddle up the Palimino -Neil (from the inside)
Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!"
Here comes the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.
Hurricane-Bob (from the outside)
Heads or tails?
When ya got the coin in your pocket it doesn't matter.
Gee, not many Fork In The Road lyrics getting quoted here... :-)
I gotta say i saw Bob last year and i dont get what people are sayin' about his voice being shot. It was magic. I'm pretty sure he wants to sound that way. It sounded like he was singin' from beyond the galaxy and beyond the grave. Phenomenal control and delivery. Masterful. And yeah they're both just the best.
Well, there may not be many lyrics from 'F.I.T.R' recited here, however, Bob has not produced anything note worthy since Infidels and I don't believe any of the Dylan lyrics posted are since his post 'Born Again' days. This is coming straight from someone who considers himself to be a fan of Dylans. He may have had some brilliant moments in his career but as a whole, Neil is like a frog on a polo stick in comparison to Bob the perverbial Tortoise.Bob may have penned some genious lyrics in his day and some melodies to boot, however, as a musician there is just no comparison. I've seen Dylan live in concert before where he changed the arrangements of his songs to where they were completely unrecognizable to the detriment of its performance.I'm not talking here about performing an electric version of an accoustic song either as Neil has been known to do with successful results.And we have to agree that Dylan doesn't even come anywhere near Neil in the 'guitar player category'. If Bob hasn't lost his voice, I sure wish for at least once he would prove it instead of mumbling through the gravel as he has been accustomed to lately.He used to re-invent himself, now he seems to have resigned to the belief that his legendary status has afforded him the luxury of just being present at his shows and going through the motions.Neil, on the other hand, continues to give his all on the stage.I sincerely wish that Dylan would return to the form that brought us 'Blood On The Tracks' or even the genious behind the the magic of the gems on 'The Basement Tapes', but I'm sure Neil will record and tour with the Horse before that happens. And since I do believe the original theme of this poll was "Who's the greater songwriter?", Neil has been far consistant of the two, and until Bob can prove otherwise, the winner would have to be Neil Young!
There's a bailout
coming but it's not
for you
there's a bailout
coming but it's not
for you
it's for all
those creeps
hiding what they do
I think thats the most poetic thing thats been written to describe the past two years...no?
The top three lyricists of all time:
1. Bob Dylan
2. CLEAR DAYLIGHT
3. Everyone else
Not even Neil Young thinks he's a better lyricist than Bob Dylan.
I don't agree : It is not a silly question. It is downright ridiculous. Or as Van might put it Absurdobscene.
Neil would not even make it into a top ten of songwriters, and Bob would be considered disqualified for excess talent.
Top 10 songwriters (after BOB, and before Neil, in any order you want):
John Prine
Tom Waits
Paul Simon
Leonard Cohen
Jackson Browne
Joni Mitchell
Van Morrison
Bruce Springsteen
Gordon Lightfoot
John Martyn
= I am sure others will disagree with my list, but the point is, the gap is HUUUGE between Bob and Neil =
Townes Van Zandt is!
Anon 1:26 - I very much like most of the artists on your list, but... I mean...
No.
Certainly likes and dislikes are all very relative to the individual, so I don't fault you your list, but...
Bruce Springsteen is quite a songwriter, but IMO not nearly as good as Neil...
John Prine is amazing, but Neil is equally as amazing at the very least...
Cohen... maybe... apples and oranges really... Cohen spends like a year composing a song, and really I haven't heard anything from him that, while beautiful, soars above Neil's songwriting.
I dunno.
I think Neil and Bob are likely the two greatest songwriters of the past 50 years, but then again there have been quite a few awesome songsmiths, and they all do their thing and write from their own mental places...
and it's really not fair to make lists and rank them all, except perhaps for fun and the sake of debate over some beers.
Anyway, I think you're just doing the usual Neil bashing. Joni? Better than Neil? Eh, I don't think so. I mean, again, it's a personal thing I suppose.
And what about Lemmy Kilminster? He doesn't deserve to be on that list?
No silly questions -- only silly answers.
Dylan is the better songwriter, without a doubt and by a large measure.
Young = very good.
Dylan = unmatchable.
Come on folks, there's Bob at the top and then there's Neil, Leonard Cohen, John Prine, etc. Without Bob Dylan, these others never would have made it. Before Bob you had to have a "pretty" voice and sing about teenage love. Bob Dylan changed the rules for rock music, just like he changed the rules for folk music. Dylans come along about every hundred years.
"...and Bob would be considered disqualified for excess talent."
Thx for this one, I had to laugh.
But it's true. Like someone on the rec.dylan-newsgroup wrote a decade ago: "this man has no peers". I haven't found any since I listened to BOTT 35 years ago (I was a bit late).
It wasn't until late 1963 when The Beatles hit America that Dylan said there was a line drawn in popular music. It was the following year that Dylan picked up an electric guitar and got a band together. The rest is history. I'm not saying The Beatles are on any list as best singer/songwriters, but their influence on Neil and Bob and everyone else can not be taken lightly.
Here's one reason Neil is better than Bob: Neil will play Bob's songs, and laid down the best tracks at Bobfest. I've never heard Bob play a Neil song. And did he show up for Neilfest? (Musicares)? Show some respect, man.
Bob Dylan may be labeled as the greatest songwriter ever. He can certainly spin the language. That doesn't mean he's the greatest artist musically, or greatest influence or greatest anything else, here in America, west of the Jordan or east of the Rock of Gilbraltor.
Neil said it 'best' a while ago,... "there is no best in music"
"I've never heard Bob play a Neil song"
iirc Bob played 'old man' live
Anon: 2:43 (thanks for setting me straight), I just watched the You Tube video from 2002 (Great version of Old Man). Still, he could have shown up for Musicares... (but, I'm sure there is a good explanation for THAT too)
You must be kidding! I'm a huge fam of Neil Young and have seen him perform many times in concert, but he doesn't even come close to Dylan as a songwriter. The entire Harvest album--an undeniable classic--was Young doing Dylan, and Heart of Gold is a Dylan arrangement, pure and simple. Where do you think he got that guitar and harmonica holder? They both are wonderful performers and it's an unfair comparison, a battle that doesn't exist.
"Still, he could have shown up for Musicares... (but, I'm sure there is a good explanation for THAT too)"
I'd be grateful if you give me a hint of what you mean. Remember the legendary "Woodstock Festival".
Bob, living at/near Woodstock at that time, didn't appear. Dylan has never been a 'hippie'. He certainly would have been the 'shining star' of that concerts, but obviously he refused to be, by whatever reasons.
I like to listen to Neil, and while my ears are wide open, it's just the music I love best. Same with Tom Waits (my personal #2)...
someone else here cited Neil: "there's no best musician".
But still Dylan is my favourite songwriter ever. who else would have put lines like this into a wedding song: "I love you more than madness, more than dreams upon the sea" and, on the very same album, starts to howl a dirge "I hate myself for loving you and the weakness that it shows".
That's just one example, there are many of them - unmatched by anyone I've ever listened to.
Young is fine, Bob sublime.
Young has never broken any significant new ground in the way that Bob did; Dylan has a list of firsts that make him much more of an innovator in general, and much more of an innovator in song. In short, Dylan could have written anything in Young's catalogue, but Young could never have written Mr Tambourine Man, Every Grain of Sand, Lay Down Your Weary Tune, Visions of Johanna. Those kind of works are beyond Neil's reach, and frankly, if you ask Neil, he would agree with you. So what? Neil's is very good in his own way.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you ask a Michael Bolton fan whether Bolton is better than Dylan, you know what the answer will be. But the history books have Bob down as the greatest songwriter of his generation, and Young barely gets a look in.
Several years back, in the Broken Arrow fanzine, a Young fan transcribed Dylan's Just Like Tom Thumbs' Blues by ear, after Young started playing it in his set, and had made the following mistake when writing the lyric's beginning: "When your lost in the rain and worries". The lyric should read "When your lost in the rain in Juarez". This, for me, encapsulates the essential difference between Dylan and Young, and the expectations of their fans. Young fans wouldn't bat an eye at a lyric like "rain and worries" because they have lower expectations.
While browsing the web for Dylan related trivia, I was amazed to discover that as of April 2002, there has been 5,870 covers of 350 Dylan songs recorded by 2,791 different artists. While I'm certain that none of Neil's songs have been covered to that extent, I also discovered that Dylan himself has covered numerous songs from other artists, especially on some of his earlier, less noteworthy albums.Out of Neil's vast catalog of recordings, I could probably count his total covered songs on both hands with a few fingers to spare. As the spokesperson for the counter culture of the sixties, Bob has now become the spokesperson for Victorias Secret and Cadillac Escalade. And while Neil has sung "ain't singing for Pepsi", Bob Dylan has (Forever Young).I can't remember ever hearing a cover of one of Neil's songs that was an improvement over his version, but in the case of Bobs, The Byrds, Manfred Mann, Peter Paul & Mary,The Turtles, The Hollies, and even Sonny and Cher had great success with their superior versions of Dylans songs. While both Bob and Neil are exceptionally gifted composers, theres something inherent in Bobs style of writing that allows other artists to claim his observations as their own, while Neil's lyrics are coming from a place too intimate and personnal for another to even pretend with any degree of honesty that the song was born in their heart. When you listen to Neil sing "now were headed for the big divorce, California style", its so convincing that the first time I heard it I began to wonder if Neil and Pegi were having marital troubles! And while many of Neil's songs are less deep in nature, some of Bob's lyrics sound as if he threw a bunch of words in a hat and composed verses as he randomly pulled out the words (Lo&Behold,Million Dollar Bash,Odds and Ends). So, for whatever formula Bob may use to pen his songs, Its obvious by the many covers alone that as a lyricist, Bob may be a harmonica brace above Neil. However, when someone has a poll on which of the two can sing better, play guitar better, compose a better melody, or grow better sideburns, I'll have to go with Neil!
Oh Yeah, the above post was brought to you by 'BigChief'!
@Anonymous, 2010 09:54:00 PM
oh yes, the old prejudice people never get rid of: bob can't sing. the byrds and manfred mann and 1000 others are doing bob's songs better than he does... the truth is that they are performing "mollified" versions of dylan's songs that almost never come close to the intensity of the original. they just transformed dylan songs into pop songs. i know of *one* person who covered some of his songs appropriately: jimi hendrix.
Well here is what Joni Mitchell thinks of Dylan...
"Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I."
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-jonimitchell-20100422,0,5684541.story?page=2
...Never said that Dylan can't sing. If there is any simularities between Bob and Neil, its in the way that they use their voices as an instrument to compliment the the songs with an element of emotion and feeling as if their voices are wired directly to their souls. When the young Bobby Womak told Sam Cooke he didn't understand Dylans vocal style, Cooke explained that "from now on, it's not going to be about how pretty the voice is, it's going to be about believing that the voice is telling the truth". Neither Bob or Neil have ever been known for 'pretty' voices, however, they are probably the most distinct original vocal styles in all of the artists to appear in the past century. My complaint as previously stated is that I long for the Dylan of times past rather then Dylan of late with the monotone catarrhal death rattle that seemingly makes no attempt to give us anything thats even remotely familiar when performing his old standards. Isn't that truthfully what most people desire to hear? I agree that he reserves the artistic freedom to change an arrangement from time to time, however, I've sat through entire concerts where most songs were completely unrecognizable.Hopefully, maybe this is yet another stage of his re-inventing himself that he will eventually grow weary of and return to the version of himself that captivated the hearts and minds of the multitudes who, like myself, long for him to belt out 'Like A Rolling Stone' rather than incoherantly mumble his way through it. Am I really the only one who feels this way? When he was good, he was really good!
Thrasher, I'm really diggin' the new format here. Once again the effort you put forth really shows your dedication to provide the Neil Community with a state of the art forum that really has no peer. You have created the definitive Neil Young fan site and for that I am grateful.
Hi BigChief,
call me LittleThief (my anonymous signature), i'm responsible for 3 posts -> 1) had to laugh when bob had been disqualified by excess talent, 2) wrote that bob played old man live and 3) still my fav songwriter is dylan, though neil's music is the best at the time i'm listening to it (same with tom waits, my #2).
--
i know another neil song covered by dylan: 'helpless' (a great song anyway!). bob didn't cover it directly, there was someone in-between called buffy sainte-marie (great singer/songwriter!). please listen to her cover of 'helpless' if it's still available at youtube, and you'll certainly know the outcome: dylan's 'knockin' on heavens door', one of his most famous songs.
---
dylan in concert, yes, that might be a problem. he's modifying songs as soon as they are released, and i do understand this behaviour. bob does ~100 concerts per year for more than 20 years now. that makes about...ehm, 2000 concerts. if i had to repeat one of my best known songs a 100 times sounding just like the original... i'd vomit and never sing them anymore. and me, as a listener in the audience, surely i'd be bored. could as well stay at home and turn on my cd-player.
further, there's a chance that dylan's live performance outshines the version published on an album.
---
bob's voice today (in my opinion) is more appealing than ever before.
cheers, your LittleThief
sry, i should have searched before i posted... here's the url of buffy's arrangement -> 'helpless':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_9gZEMQ2No
LittleTief
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