Comment of the Moment: Can Neil Young Fans Ever Be Satisfied?
Neil Young
Sundance Film Festival - 2006
The bafflement continues over the faux outrage regarding the MP3 Release of the 1970 Fillmore "Cinnamon Girl".
Just a sampling of the reaction finds some upset about nearly everything involving the download. Even the .$99 price.
In response to the howls of wronged Neil fans, comes the following observation by Anonymous:
To the anonymous person who wrote this…
“Neil is doing a lot of things these days that don't make much sense, but there is nobody surrounding him to tell him the truth.”
What does this mean? Are you referring to the people who told him that it would be a good idea to go on an extended tour from the Fall of 2007 playing intimate theaters in the U.S. all the way through a big summer 2009 in Europe? Or the people who told him that this is the year to finally release the Archives, Vol. 1? And that this is the year to release a live album of the Harvest Moon tour?
Shame on those people.
Can anyone imagine the commentary out there if Thrasher’s Wheat existed during the 80s? Even during the Rust tour in 1978? NO doubt a lot of people would have called the Jawas silly & the set a joke, etc.
When has he done anything conventionally? If you don’t like something Neil is doing don’t blame him or his “camp”… blame his muse. He follows that thing everywhere and at any cost.
And another take on the kerfuffle:
"having read the scoop now i'm glad neil is totally oblivious to all this crap and just focuses on doing what he does ... he can't win ... if he put it in there originally people would have complained about the quality ... so he left it out, added only the fillmore material that was excellent ... then people complained they wanted it so he sends it free as a bd download but then people complain they want it in mp3 ... so one song is easiest to send to the public through the mp3 services ... jeez ... give the team a break ... buy it if u want it, dont buy it if u don't ... and find something more important to focus on ... neil probably isnt even aware of the controversy and thats a good thing"
OK. So Should Fillmore "Cinnamon Girl" be Available as a MP3?
Can't decide? Maybe this will help.
UPDATE: We understand that Amazon is running a free MP3 special today. Details and code below. Thanks Bob!
by thrasher@PermaLink: 11/23/2009 03:37:00 AM
32 comments
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32 Comments:
Being a Neil fan is sometimes rough, and more often than not because you get to listen to the whining of a self-entitled section of his fan base, who feels let down if Neil himself doesn't drive down in his Linc-Volt and deliver personally a free MP3 copy of the latest Archives download to all DVD, CD, and MP3 customers. The live download feature was always intended only for the Blu-Ray Archives, and is built into its cost. There were never any overpromises there. Making the downloads available to DVD and CD customers is already a nice gesture that goes beyond what you paid for, so charging for the download is acceptable. Should the price be 99 cents? 79? 69? How much do you spend on a cup of coffee?
It's strange how blindfolded the people running this site are. The whole issue isn't about the song being released as MP3 nor its price. The whole issue is about it NOT being the released on the Fillmore CD or on the Fillmore Blu-Ray disc in the box set in the first place. It clearly existed before the release of either and should've been included.
Somewhere someone decided that it was to be left out and and be included as a downloadable bonus later instead.
That was not the reasons we heard earlier about the box. What we heard was that if Neil or others discovered items that hadn't been found by the time of the release of the archives box set it would be made available as a download for those who bought the blu-ray.
The thing about this track is that it wasn't found later. It clearly existed before the release of both CD and Blu-Ray and therefore should have been included.
If they found a something that no one knew existed (even Neil) after the release of the archives that would be totally OK to release it for download, but that's not the case with this Cinnamon Girl track. They've clearly decided before the archives release to make certain songs that should have been included available for download later.
Those that bought the CD now has to listen to the CD up to where Cinnamon Girl should've been, then go to their computer and play the Cinnamon Girl track, then go back to the CD and play the rest of the show.
Those with Blu-Ray are more fortunate of course, but only if they are able to connect their player to the Internet, if not, they're just as screwed as those with the CD.
Also, the people running this site need to be more critical of Neil's stupid actions, not lick his back and make him look like a flawless god. Not "oh we need to defend Neil from these critical comments".
+1 for Anonymous 11/23/2009 08:52:00 AM
You nailed it.
Quit complaining and get it FREE from amazon.com. Go to
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_86123591_2?tag=slickdeals&ie=UTF8&docId=1000455181&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=01CRM9R6HV6G359W7HWG&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=500790611&pf_rd_i=2236008011
Click the "Enter your code" button, and enter the code MP34FREE.
No go download the Cinnamon Girl MP3 and two more tracks of your choice.
Peace
Oh come on, Anon 8:52, do you really care that intensely about this assumption that you've made about Neil's obviously nefarious, premeditated attempt to get another 99 cents out of you? Are you really so concerned as to the technicalities of "why" Neil chose to include or not include something or make it available later that it drives you to post these critical missives about it? Is it really such a big deal for you to rip the cd to your hard drive and put the songs in order yourself?
I don't even see why this is such an issue. So what if Neil left it off the Fillmore CD, and so what about the ASSUMPTIONS you are making with regard to "why" he did it? Who cares?
People are suffering in the world. So, here, I've got a good idea for you.
Go to Amazon.com, pay your dollar, download the song, listen to it, and just think about how the dollar you just donated to Neil Young is going to help him fund a very meaningful, important project that is good for the world and sets an example about how people should be more active in trying to create positive change for a better tomorrow.
Is it not enough for you to donate to selfless enterprises for the benefit of humanity? Or are you really just going to be selfishly disgruntled about the terrible, intolerable inconvenience of having to rip a CD, piece together a performance, or switch from CD to mp3 and back again, or pay another 99 cents for something that you feel entitled to have had on a previous album release?
With all due respect, you are the one who is blindfolded - blindfolded by your own self-centered imaginings and perceived inconveniences.
I just see it as donating to a good cause and not much else. Any small thing I can do to help Neil operate his ranch and fund his alternative fuel project, I am absolutely happy to do. I just don't see it as an issue at all, and in fact find all the complaining to be nauseatingly self-centered and pointless.
and you guys call yourselves Neil Young fans...seems like he's always done what HE wanted to do...and he even changes his mind on occaision...or didja forget that too...y'all want some cheese to go with that whine?
asg
Christ, Matthew. Miss the point much?
I believe in the Neil good faith. After the complains of many fans, Neil has thought that the material on the Archives wasn't enough for his hardcore fans.It's not a ripoff.These days the average artist doesn't gain much from the sales of his songs, so I'm very happy to fund Neil for his many severla musical projects. Thanks for the download.
Andrea." A believer"
I have not bothered to analyse whether Neil's actions are stupid or not or if I really need two pieces of the Massey Hall and Filmore East (I probably do not...). Now some people think Neil did not release Cinnamon Girl on the Fillmore East to earn himself a few dollars more. Hard to believe. To me it is simple: I am happy about everything he is supplying and buy them if I feel for it. I can not think of any other artist offering so many treasures as Neil, though some of the material are not even close to perfect. I think it is possible to be a fan without buying everything so just relax if you do not want something. Me I am still looking forward to Dreamin' Man, Toast, Archives vol 2-10 etc. etc.(but I still do not have the remastered versions of his first albums). Should I be more critical about Neil's action? I am still not a big fan of Fork in the Road -but so what? Neil have had to struggle with different opinions all through his career. When he is doing something new and exciting (Greendale, Tonights the Night) people are complaining and when he is playing some of his "Greatest Hits" (summer tour Europe 2009), others (or maybe the same people?)find it boring.
Anon... Perhaps I did. Let's see... (if you are the same Anon 8:52)...
You believe that it is NOT OK for Neil to release this as an mp3, because you ASSUME that he made a decision to exclude the track from the original release in order to make it a download for the Archives, and you express a self-righteous entitlement over this, and a belief that Neil is doing it for the money and lied about his intent, which just doesn't sit right with you.
Most of your expressed concerns are total assumption without any basis in actual knowledge.
And they are petty, particularly considering the manner in which Neil uses the money he makes from his musical projects.
Nope, I didn't miss the point at all.
Peace,
Matt
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
I think everyone is ignoring the reason CG was omitted from the fillmore disc originally. It's because Neil didnt think the quality of the performance and audio was up to the excellent standard of the remainder of the Fillmore disc. Simple as that. It always existed.
So he's given it away for free via bd live ( which was always going to get some extras as he said) and if anyone else really wants a copy you can pay 99 cents for the mp3 . If he really wanted to rip us off he could have added it ( and a couple of other sub par tracks) to the original album and re-released it again.
That's what I think too, Mick. Something about an out-of-tune guitar, and it just not measuring up to the rest of the disc.
Then, because people kept asking for it, he decided to release it.
Wich is... apparently... an outrageously unacceptable, abhorrent, titanic breach of fan-trust to some people, and a good excuse for creating wild assumptions and conspiracy theories to protect their desire to vehemently criticize Neil every time he takes a breath.
heh heh heh :^)
Truth needs no defense.
It has already been explained how and why only a few songs remained from Filmore.
I don't have to repeat it here.
I am delighted that another song was found.
I'm thankful for ALL the songs Neil gives us.
Lots of love to Neil and crew!
Marian M.
NEIL! Do as I say, dammit!
-Not Rotten Johnny
I agree with the previous posts. Sometimes the truth is simpler than it seems.Neil is also a professional musician and simply felt that this track was less stellar than the rest.He couldn't chose other versions of CG, so we have the abridged version of the Fillmore concert.Many fans objected his exclusion. Neil explained us the reasons for it and kindly gave us CG in all his ragged glory.Free for the lucky BR owners, just for a coin for the rest.Not more, not less.No Mystery.
Andrea.
Ya can just imagine OLD Shakey (64 now!he he) sitting back of a night goin' to his favourite blog site.. and readin ' all this banter
He'd be sittin there cackin' himself....
"Hey Peg, come and read this one...
"I've certainly got a few people pissed off, he he!..and I thought briggsy used to bite!"
Neil,the original shitstirrer!
That's why we luv ya!!
Hey, this squabble just reminded me of my childhood. When I was a teenybopper, the Beatles would come out with a single(say, Eleanor Rigby/Yellow Submarine). It was great. You'd pay your 69 cents at Kmart for it and love it. Then an album would come out (say, Revolver) and you'd go to Kmart and pay your $2.47 for a mono LP (or $3.47 for a stereo LP). And you'd feel freakin' ripped off because there, again, were Eleanor Rigby and Yellow Submarine! For $2.47, dang it, you wanted ALL NEW SONGS! Forty-three years later, do I care anymore about paying twice for the same music? No, I put Revolver on and enjoy the most sublime album ever made. My point, you say? Give it time and the 99 cents won't matter to you anymore! (I've gotten over the 69 cents for the single.) All that matters is that you have ALL of Neil's music. I'd like mine on a chip embedded in my head, accessible at all times and sounding like he's there performing just for me. Maybe in the year 2525, ya think? If man is still alive...
Thrasher, maybe we could have a third voting option -
- I think Neil should be
trusted to make his own
decisions about his
own music, for whatever
reasons. HE`S the artist, and
it`s HIS music.
That`s my vote.
Jill (keep on blogging)
Dearest Neil, if you read this page- and I seriously doubt you do...but just in case: FUCK THESE PEOPLE! They're Assholes. Don’t read any of this shit. Here's why- You are brilliant...really...I mean it. You are one of the greatest songwriters who has ever lived- up there with Dylan, and Lennon for chrissakes, you own and live on a sprawling, magnificent ranch, you have a beautiful wife, great kids, an awesome classic car collection, you think of clever nicknames to give everything, You own a hugely oversized microphone, harp and tuning fork (that alone is just way fuckn' awesome in itself),you've ridden a lama from Peru to Texarkana, you wrote a song called Piece of crap, you've jammed with everyone (and I mean everyone) in rock n' roll, you once cut your hand on ham sandwich and didn’t cancel the tour, You don’t sing for nobody…not even Spuds!, You've been all over the world many times, you once stole your own record from a record store...brilliant! That damn Artist splattered paint all over your suit but you still wore it on stage (…that’s cool!) You wrote a whole album about car! You actually quoted Chris Rock in a serious song, You used to drive hearse, you’ve shelved whole, fantastic albums- songs most great musicians can’t write on their best day- to do something else, YOU USED TO BE IN A BAND WITH RICK JAMES!!!, You've had a phenomenal music career that's going on like 45 years during which you've stayed on top of your game- hell you wrote the game, you've consistently written album after album of GREAT songs and playing live?- no one from your generation or next holds a candle to you- you ROCK AT 64! Oh and let’s not forget...your very, very rich! And the rest of us, well, we waste our short sad lives away sitting in front of a computer screen, on line and bitch about every move you make.
So if I had to pick who was right between You and your fans about the $.99 mp3 of Cinnamon Girl...I'd pick you Neil...I think, given all the evidence listed above, you know better than us about how to run your career. But one piece of advice from a little person: leave the cutting of the ham sandwiches to us ordinary folk....
You Rock Neil
Sincerely,
Shitty
Hey Shitty, you sure your not masquerading as Neil's son!! lol
Never,Never "ride" the horse...
he could tellya to Buck off!!
Shiitty..always calls a spade a shovel! he he
luv The sock Doc
i'm satisfied and THRILLED to be alive at the same time as a highly productive Neil Young
I find it amazing that, at age 64 and a career of over 45 years, Neil Young still manages to piss people off in this way. Whether it's the audiences during the Time Fades Away tour, the people that went to see the 2003 acoustic Greendale shows or the 2006 Freedom of Speech tour, Living with War or Fork in the Road buyers. You really should know better by now. As has been said before, Neil has always done whatever he wants and I think he's great for doing so and am a fan because of it. He's not a f***ing jukebox people, when will you learn (Neil, at times, must be thinking that his audience wants to "stick a quarter up his ass and make him play Heart of Gold"). In one of the archives hidden clips Neil says that he used to think 'f*ck the audience' a lot more, but because of the success of albums like Harvest and so on had become more weary of this. But when he does a set list like during the summer of 2009 people still give him shit. I for one, would love to see him return to those old ways, as history has shown this more often than not yields the best music. As far as the archives are concerned; they are meant to tell a story and the CD version does just that. The DVD and BD versions tell the same story, but with footnotes that give some background info (i.e. the hidden material) and in higher quality. The BD-live downloads, whether pre-existing or not, are there for the hardcore fans, IMHO, who want to replace their shitty 3rd gen bootleg tapes with something worthwhile. Furthermore, the BD version of the archives is the way Neil envisioned the archives to be, all the way back in the eighties, when it was still called Decade II; the listener is able to look at memorabilia and photos concerning the song while listening to it. And to paraphrase the man himself: all you critics sit alone, you're no better than him for what you shown.
"The thing about this track is that it wasn't found later. It clearly existed before the release of both CD and Blu-Ray and therefore should have been included."
Well clearly not, because it wasn't. It's not your decision, it's the musician's, and he's got far better taste than the people who complain about him.
Far better.
Give Harm some more nails if he needs 'em...
asg
give Harm some more nails, if he needs 'em...
asg
sorry about the redundancy...an intellectual glitch...
Reasons to be cheerful....
1. Being alive
2. Being alive and healthy and living in a wealthy, modern, western democracy
3. Being alive at the same time as a remarkable artist at the peak of his performing powers and still producing material and touring after four decades
5. Having available the artists unique early back-catalogue in a choice of formats
4. Being able to afford a blue-ray home entertainment/audio system
5. Being able to afford the archives blue-ray edition*
6. Having a MP3 of Cinnamon Girl with Crazy Horse from the Fillmore available from i-Tunes/Amazon for 79p (= 1.3 US)
In the UK 79p is equivalent to say a daily newspaper, half a cup of coffee, or less than half a pint of beer. Small beer indeed.
*(I myself am saving hard for the DVD edition - can't afford a blue -ray set up), and when I eventually get there am sure going to enjoy it).
Missed the point? er, I dont think so!
As several before me have said if you don't want - dont buy it.
Be grateful, be content, know when you are well off
Peace
Chris M
Re: Anon at 11/23/2009 04:43:00 PM,
I hear what you are saying (although your Beatle example is a poor one, as nearly every single they ever released was not on an album). I too have bought, multiple times, the same or similar musical product from an artist that I really love, whether it is Neil or The Who (the worst offenders, IMHO) or a few others. The fact that we do what we do is because we, presumably, LOVE the music. And while it can be annoying, I don't necessarily see it as a BAD thing, just an unnecessary thing.
As for the Neil/Cinnamon Girl thing, I agree that it should have been included in the original release as the track was obviously available. I'm the type of guy that prefers FULL shows, warts and all, and if they are not available, give me the closest thing to it. Guitar was out of tune?? Sloppy playing?? who gives a shit. its a moment in time that was captured and should be left unaltered.
I guess my main problem is that I have to enjoy the DL in less than CD quality (poor grad student here...no $ for the Blue-ray yet). oh well. I got it and have enjoyed it, and I guess that's the main thing.
MJ
Last I checked "Cinnamon Girl" from the Fillmore was released in a disjointed & totally odd way. I get it. It didn't make much sense.
Judging by all of the passionately negative responses on here you'd think Neil Young murdered someone or stole from them or put somebody in the hospital. Let's keep this in perspective: he realeased one song. That's all he did.
And I get that releasing it on the "Live at The Fillmore" album would have made A LOT MORE SENSE. but he didn't. Who knew that one song would cause such a ruckus?!
Thanks for the Amazon code -- picked up Cinnamon Girl and two other tracks I was too cheap to spend 99 cents on!
@ Anon 11/24/2009 05:31:00 PM:
Maybe it would make more sense, indeed, but what about the acoustic set then? People are continuously complaining about the missing Cinnamon Girl, but seem to forget the whole acoustic set is missing too. I've heard an audience tape of it once and also have the February 25th soundboard of both sets and to be honest, the acoustic set is not all that special.
I do have to give you credit on the warts and all stuff, but what good would that do to the set as a whole? The CD-buyers generally are the more casual fans who even get annoyed by the band introduction on Fillmore or all the talking on Massey Hall as this disrupts the music. Do you really think those people would want to hear a sub par recording/performance of parts of the concert for completeness sake? Don't think so.
The people that did buy the BD set, like me (and I'm a student still who had to save up for it) are generally not casual fans. They do want the the warts and all stuff, but if I speak for myself, this still should not mean crappy (or at least sub par) recordings unless its absolutely necessary. A sub par performance on the other hand is a different story. That's what BD-live is for, a sub par performance of Cinnamon Girl in high sound quality on one and and a rare live Mr. Soul in sub par sound quality. With Sugar Mountain, Riverboat, Massey Hall and the CSNY CD 4 Way Street Neil's live solo acoustic material is well covered, if you ask me. Now, a live version of the Loner with the Horse would be nice though.
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