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Tuesday, October 22, 2013

Comment of the Moment: Caught You Knockin' At My Cellar Door Release

Yesterday, we brought you the news of the upcoming release of Neil Young "Live at the Cellar Door" on December 10th .

Oddly -- or maybe not -- this new release of old material from the Archives Performance Series did not sit well with some.

For some, any new or old Neil is better than no Neil at all.

Which brings us to the Comment of the Moment by the ever interpid and prolific Anonymous:
As an elected representative of Neil's fans in their mid-20s (we all think completely alike), I must say this release does little to excite me. In fact, my gut instinct is to ILLEGALLY download this, seeing as I saved up for the blu-ray archives specifically for extra planned downloads such as this.

Normally, I would never even think of doing that. But it shows a lack of respect for the fans in my opinion to promise so much and deliver so little, and that naturally makes me reluctant to part with any more money. "Once bitten, twice shy" is the expression, I think. I don't feel bad about saying all this, because I know many others feel the same.

Personally, I would LOVE to hear the Bluenotes live album, the 76 Crazy horse tour, the Eldorado tour, an OPL show (if any were taped). I would also love to see Weld and RNS on blu-ray. And a 1993 Booker T show! ...And the film of The Dublin show in 1995 with Pearl jam!

And on and on....!

Unfortunately these releases are so unbelievably slow by modern standards that by the time even half of those are released, Neil will be 90 years old (a.k.a dead), and so will most of the fans. There will be nobody left to listen. So learn something from the modern artists who are thriving right now, Neil, and speed things up a bit!
OK, fine. We respect your opinion. And we could sing a Rolling Stones song about not getting what you want, but what you need.

But we'll let some other folks respond. Like SD who said:
Can you name some of the modern artists who are releasing their back catalogues of unreleased albums and live performances and Archives at such a rapid rate?

Can you provide some examples to substantiate your argument?

Neil Young fans have been extremely fortunate in the wealth of material, much of it in incredible quality, over the years that has been released. To think otherwise because you didn't get something you wanted is ridiculous. Very few artists have released this volume of material over their careers.
And of course, folks always bring up what Bob Dylan, The Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix, etc are doing with their legacy material.

Sure, it would be terrific to have everything available now -- Oceanside/Countryside, Homegrown, Carnegie Hall, Dorothy Chandler, Toast, etc. But that doesn't seem to be The Shakey Roadmap does it?

So what exactly is the Archives Performance Series release plan? Well, given that Cellar Door release is #2.5, there may not really be a master plan?

If you're keeping score at home, here's where things stand:

00 Sugar Mountain '68
01 Riverboat '69
02 Fillmore East 3/70
02.5 Cellar Door late 70
03 Massey Hall '71

09 A Treasure '84-85
12 Dreamin' Man '92

So, who;s going to be knockin' at the Cellar Door?



At 10/22/2013 06:30:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are your thoughts on the BD-Live then, Thrasher? Did it live up to your expectations?


At 10/22/2013 06:58:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, of course I'm gonna buy it but I'm kinda pissed that it's from an era that's been so well covered already. Shouldn't we be onto Archives Vol. 2 period now? I have pretty limited resources currently, and a new Neil album of songs I've already got two or three versions of is very disappointing.

At 10/22/2013 07:08:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wrote the post quoted at the top......

I think my original point stands up to scrutiny: if they keep up the current pace of releases, it's going to be a good twenty years before we hear even half of the planned Archives releases. In my opinion, that's a bit slow. Don't you agree?

I'd rather the core releases all came out during Neil's lifetime, and most of the fans' lifetimes, too. Bearing in mind they've been planning these releases for 25 years now....that's before I was born!

Maybe it would be better if they just let them go, allowed them to be heard whilst there's still a strong and appreciative audience for them. Because you can't bank on that audience lasting forever.

There's plenty of stuff in the Archives; they are not going to run out of material any time soon. They could release a show a week and still be going strong in 15 years time! I'm not suggesting such a busy schedule as that, but surely they can work just a little more urgently than they are currently? That's all I was saying.,

And I think it can only be a good thing that fans are saying "c'mon Neil, get on with it!". I mean, that's raw enthusiasm - we still care! That's a lot better than indifference.

At 10/22/2013 08:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is supposes to be a 2cd set
and 1 vinyl Amazon lists the vinyl at $40.14 which just plain
sucks and is a blatant rip off. Most
new vinyl retails these days for approx. 20.00 per Lp give or take.
Jonathan Wilsons great new 2LP is 22.00 180 gram vinyl

And why a 2 cd set how long can this set be40 minutes/ If Neil needs money gouging your hard core fans is not the way to do it. Take some lessons from your master Bob Dylan who is leaving you in the dust in sales in new material in delivering a back catalog that no one comes close to. as afar as im concerned you can take your pono and stick it where the sun don't shine Im throwing out all your records and cds

At 10/22/2013 09:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We care with a passion and we're not getting any younger. The Shakey Roadmap is aptly named indeed. At this point I wish someone from within would just leak it all. What the hell. Buy the ticket, take the ride. I already have my ticket, where's the damn ride already?!

At 10/22/2013 10:35:00 PM, Blogger Dan1 said...

Seriously no offense meant with what I'm going to say but someone in their mid-20s hasnt travelled very much of this twisted road w/ Neil and is unsurprisingly apt to try to just 'steal it' ... i'm waiting for the vault to open and for the shows to pour out too but there's a lot to consider here, for example: 1) these are not some Phish concert recordings that were ripped at a show last week, these are 40-50 year old recordings that have to, in many cases, be repaired, remixed, converted, ect ... theres a team of people on Neil's payroll for years to make these projects happen and there is a cost to producing and distributing this content and the team thats been doing it deserves their just compensation ... not to mention as Neil reminded the heckler at Farm Aid, "I work for myself" ... whether we all like it or hate it Neil will do it his own way on his time frame I think he could truly care less whether we're overjoyed or cursing him out ... he's doing this for himself ... I doubt the Archives broke even ... I've got a list mile long of stuff I'm hoping comes out ... I still think that Decade is the best 'Archives' edition thats come out so far (not counting the live editions like Fillmore which are epic) ... but in summary just be happy Neil's cranking out new music, live music, archives and being the activist in chief .... and by the time archives III comes out in 2025 you'll be in your 40s and none of this will phase you much:) ... but yea, agree by standards of todays young acts this moves like the ice age ... I mean we did wait like 20+ years for Archives I. But on the other hand Neil kept us pretty entertained while we waited.

At 10/23/2013 06:24:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It just a plain sin what NY is doing. Just ripping the ordinary people off.

At 10/23/2013 07:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It does seem like we always have the same conversations when Neil announces a decision...on anything! A new release...tour dates...a post on his website...whatever he does we all react in a passionate way. I get it. We all have a personal attachment to Neil in our own way. Yet it's pretty clear that the feelings are not reciprocated. Neil doesn't give a flying F what any of us think.

But I do wonder how much oil is involved in the manufacturing process to produce vinyl albums? After all, vinyl is a petroleum based product. And Neil tells everyone with ears that oil is bad and we must end our use of it across the industrialized world and throughout civilization. He says these things while continuing to use more of it than most of us ever will.

Neil's legacy and musical catalog speaks for itself. I'm thrilled every time I get a chance to hear things that were recorded before I was even born (I'm 40). But I wish I didn't have to even know about everything he does.

At 10/23/2013 08:34:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

See, there's no mention of a blu ray release for Cellar Door, which is what makes me think it might be made available for download on the box set.

The Flying Scotsman.

At 10/23/2013 10:03:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What pisses me off most about this
is the gouging of us hardcore fans

A 40.00 price tag for a single LP
is simple outrageous. NO other artist albums go for that amount. in fact many 2LPs go in the 20 dollar range.

This is my take on neil's vinyl
pricing. In the music industry
meaning a retailer can not return
unsold copies. CDs are returnable.
Thus a business owner can order
multiple copies of a cd and what doesn't sell they can send back for credit. Not so with vinyl,

I personally know 3 record store owners who will no longer bring in new neil vinyl because the price is
too high. many retailers got stuck with multiple copies of A treasure
because at 40 to 50 bucks its not going to sell. this is the business reality in the music industry. You can make all the excuses you want for Neil but its
dollars and sense that matter

Also there is no need for this to be a 2 CD unless its over 75 minutes which im willing to bet its not. Another way to get more
money out of the flock, ive bought
every Neil related piece since Buffalo Springfield again in 67.
And ive bought them in VINYL,IN 8 TRACK IN CASSETTE IN CD but neil youre losing one of your best customers as your greedy hand smells like shit.

At 10/23/2013 10:23:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It'll be fascinating to hear this one! Love the tracklist.

At 10/23/2013 10:32:00 AM, Blogger thrasher said...

@Grandpa - for awhile, yes.

@Dan1 - Neil's in it for the long run and will likely outlive us all anyways.

@Anon @ 07:16:00 AM - hmm, interesting about vinyl & petroleum. Maybe they're recycled? Althouh you hear the phrase "virgin vinyl", we have no idea what that really means.

@Anon @ 10:03:00 AM - we have no idea where this "2 CD" release belief comes from? The official PR only states: Sides 1 & 2 which implies one vinyl disc, does it not?

At 10/23/2013 10:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Arcives Guy's post to the rustlist identifies it as 2 CD. Neil has a lot of salaries to pay.

At 10/23/2013 11:04:00 AM, Blogger Old Black said...

Maybe old news - but I see in today's New York Times that Neil will be streaming this year's Bridges Concert live on YouTube.

At 10/23/2013 12:49:00 PM, Blogger Unknown said...

i agree with the speed up the releases speed em up....i'm not around forever ya know.

At 10/23/2013 02:32:00 PM, Anonymous SD said...

@ Anonymous

I have no problem paying more for Neil's vinyl - with MANY, MANY current releases (seriously, it's a lot of them) you don't have any idea what you are getting in terms of pressing or mastering quality.

With Neil? You know who has pressed it and where it's been pressed, and you can with almost 100% certainty know that you are getting a GREAT sounding vinyl record.

You cannot say this about most albums out today. I would rather pay more for something I KNOW is going to be high quality, than to pay for something pressed at, for example, United and not know if I'm going to get one of their good pressings, one of their poor pressings, whether it's going to be from a label that uses digital sources, etc.

And remember, you don't have to buy anything. If you think it's too expensive I have this crazy, out there idea: don't buy it!

At 10/23/2013 02:48:00 PM, Anonymous SD said...

"as afar as im concerned you can take your pono and stick it where the sun don't shine Im throwing out all your records and cds"

Haha! I just saw this comment - this is truly gold! I'm dying of laughter over here.

At 10/23/2013 03:07:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been emptying my wallet out to Neil since 1971. I'll continue to do so for live shows but I'm sitting out this Cellar Door release. SD is right. Don't buy it indeed!! Come on Neil, cough up the cuts!!

At 10/23/2013 03:15:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give me a proper recording of tonight's the night live in UK or Europe with the santa monica flyers and I'll die a happy man

At 10/23/2013 04:05:00 PM, Anonymous SD said...

I'm sure there will be more coming - in the last few years we've had live shows from the 1980s (A Treasure) and the 1990s (Dreamin' Man) to go with electric Crazy Horse (Fillmore) and acoustic Harvest Neil (Massey Hall), early, early Neil (Sugar Mountain). This added to already released in the past Time Fades Away, Live Rust, Weld, Year of the Horse, Road Rock, etc.

An artist that goes through this much effort to get his live recordings out there and who has spent so much time on these releases is not going to suddenly stop and ignore certain eras.

It'll come, and maybe we can stop losing our cool every time Neil doesn't do exactly what we want?

You don't have to like it, but don't act like it's some rip-off to you.

At 10/23/2013 04:25:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is probably where the rip-off claims are originating:

"(Content) is free if you have blu-ray. Year in, year out. New content is found everyday. All of my new projects will be available on blu-ray, it is not going away. As time passes, you will see that blu-ray is what you want....Don't say I didn't tell you".

- Neil Young.

So, we'll wait and see...

At 10/23/2013 05:26:00 PM, Blogger Dmitri Karamazov said...

If Neil issues it, I’ll buy it and love it. I’ve followed that policy for 40 years WHY CHANGE NOW?

Neil, Please give us a remastered Time Fades Away box set, the GREATEST LIVE ALBUM ever made –


At 10/23/2013 06:40:00 PM, Blogger Unknown said...

I am sure it will be awesome. He is the great solo performer of the rock era so another solo performance is fine by me. All or most of the other stuff is out there if you know where to look.

At 10/23/2013 10:56:00 PM, Blogger Kimball said...

The saddest words of tongue or pen,
are those of one who expects anything other than what Neil feels like releasing. Respect the artist. Respect the artist. Or go buy a pair of seamless pants. At this point in his career nothing else makes sense. He earned the right to release whatever he feels is right long ago. That's why those of us who understand that think the expecters are so lost. We're so far ahead of where we could ever have expected to be. It's all been a gift; it is the software for my heart. How can you? You can't. Recognize what you've gotten and don't spook the muse when its holding you or yours.

At 10/24/2013 07:04:00 AM, Anonymous mantrano9 said...

nuts to anonymous give your opinion and say who you are ,i feel Neil gives us what we need and for that i am very grateful look forward to celler door but i guess anonymous wont be knocking though all are welcome.

At 10/24/2013 10:03:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


that all sounds like one of those Bob Dylan songs that seems profound, until your realise it's been written by compiling excerpts from TIME magazine.

At 10/24/2013 10:22:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Grandpa died like a hero....trying to be anonymous".

Two people state their respectful what's really the difference between the who calls himself "anonymous" and the one who calls himself (or herself) "mantrano9"? In truth, I don't feel I know either of them any better!

I've noticed that the most outright disrespectful posts (which is where it could indeed be an issue, potentially) tend to be split equally between those who are anonymous and those who use some kind of name.

Indeed, some of the most notable "troublemakers" on here have had usernames, and some of the most interesting commenters have been anonymous....for a milder example, look at your own posts mantrano9, and you may see the irony of your position!

To conclude, in this context I think the significance of anonymity is clearly and unconvincingly being exaggerated by some, to the effect of detracting attention from what really matters: the coherence of people's opinions.

At 10/24/2013 10:48:00 AM, Anonymous SD said...

@Anon above, you're cutting and pasting different quotes in different contexts there, no? At least I cannot find that quote online presented as one entire quote.

What I have found is he said this:

“As time passes, you will see that Blu-ray is what you want for the utmost in quality, variety and versatility,” he says. “It is worth it to get into Blu-ray now. Don’t say I didn’t tell you.”

Which was said in the context of describing the video and audio quality capability of blu-ray players compared to other formats. From what I understand, the Blu-ray quality and functionality was far and away better than the other versions.

I don't see the problem? Maybe I just can't find the quote, but either way.

At 10/24/2013 11:07:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

SD - Yeah, that's from the very same note:

"(BD-Live Content) is free if you have blu-ray. Year in, year out. New content is found everyday". I don't think this is untruthful, just quite misleading.


"All of my new projects will be available on blu-ray, it is not going away." We'll wait and see!

At 10/24/2013 11:57:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have great respect for Neil Young's art but have become increasingly frustrated with all the bait and switch nonsense. Why does he tease us with projects like Toast for instance, only to jerk them away? Blu-ray my ass. Come on!

His favorite cartoon has to be Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. That one never gets old, right Neil? har har

I would like to thank whomever said most of this stuff is out there if you know where to look. Trunk Show is amazing!! I'd given up looking for that one and there it was!! Lo res but don't care. Was thrilled to finally see it as I will be for all the other stuff I might get to hear and see someday if I live long enough!

Can't wait until Saturday night to see CSN&Y streaming from California. God Bless Neil Young.

At 10/24/2013 04:00:00 PM, Blogger Dmitri Karamazov said...

You know, in a century’s time, there are probably only 4 or 5 individuals who come along and have the artistic vision and stature of a Neil Young. So I say: let the Man do what he wants, trust him… and try to keep up. But hey, keep those cards and letters coming!

At 10/24/2013 07:51:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Like others I'm surprised that Neil is releasing yet another show from same era. But I wonder if perhaps this release is intended to give greater prominence to Neil's folkie roots.

Neil is generally known for three styles: 1) folk 2) poppy country-rock and 3) heavy guitar rock. Of course he's experimented with other sounds but he usually explores some version of these styles.

But very few of his albums actually have a genuine folk aesthetic: solo acoustic guitar and topical/confessional lyrics. Some of Live Rust & Unplugged, and other songs scattered about on various albums (OTB, RNS, etc). That's about it until the recent release of Massey Hall, Canterbury House, Dreamin' Man, and some of the Archives. (Maybe Le Noise is some kind of postmodern folk album, I don't know.)

I recall Archives Guy once explaining that they (Neil's team) are trying to tell a story about Neil's career, so perhaps they feel his folkie side needs to be showcased more widely for the story they are trying to tell (or create). Over the years Neil has released many heavy guitar albums and many albums with various backing bands, but very few, if any, truly solo albums.

I must admit, I am looking forward to hearing Cinnamon Girl on piano and another version of Flying On The Ground with Neil singing is always welcome. Considering it's a week away from one year since Neil's last album, any new release at this point is better than nothing at all I guess.


At 10/24/2013 09:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am hoping there will be a little card inside the package saying "Neil Young Archives Volume 2 Coming June 2014".

At 10/25/2013 03:51:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's how its done -

Explore 'Another Self Portrait' with the Bob Dylan: The Bootleg Series for iOS, featuring over 500 pieces of content, including histories, exclusive video interviews, and photo galleries to accompany the 36 rare tracks from 'The Bootleg Series Vol. 10 - Another Self Portrait (1969 - 1971)'.
Fans who've tried the new, free iOS app have been raving:

"I see the future of music and media interactivity...this app is fantastic."

"...really cool concept for a huge Dylan fan..."

"Absolutely love it!"

" amazingly immersive experience..."

At 10/26/2013 11:55:00 AM, Anonymous Jonny Cougar said...

Downloading records isn't stealing imo. Music is an idea, and ideas are free. You can go on youtube and watch every song performed live for free and people don't consider that stealing. You don't have to pay to listen to the radio.

I do pay for Neil's music, sure, well at least new releases. And I definitely support my favorite artists whenever they come to town, which is when they usually make the most money anyway. I have most of his records on vinyl and I'm not going to buy CD copies to hear the same tunes on my computer or in my car, so I downloaded a digital copy of the entire discography. I understand that people have been paying for Neil's records for decades and they feel loyalty because of that.

If I paid for all of the music I have in my possession I would be thousands of dollars in debt. Neil deserves to be paid for what he does but at the same time I don't feel like people should be barred from hearing music just because they can't afford it. It's as essential as food and clothing in my opinion

At 10/28/2013 04:06:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you don't pay for music that you
downloaded you are ripping off the artist It doesn't matter if the artist has tons of money or not any
you are still stealing from them. Most musicians and artists don't have anywhere near the money of a Dylan or neil
they struggle to pay their bills

Americas children they all want everything for free

At 10/28/2013 10:59:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm as big a Neil Young fan as there is (really), but to compare him on any level to Bob Dylan is ridiculous.

Individually, there's Dylan and then everyone else playing in a different minor league. So yes, Neil may be 2nd to Dylan in some ways, but it's a false comparison.

As far as Neil's recent archive releases, etc..., I believe he has the best intentions releasing what's important to him. He is however out of step with fans expectations, and the things that matter to him are very unimportant to us. While it may appear he's trying to gauge his fan base with many semi-duplicate releases, he's not. If anything, his approach to technology (which to my ear sounds sonically worse than what he released 20-30 years ago) costs him more than he could ever hope to recoup. At this time, he's on his own path (as always), and I'll support him how I can, but I've stopped paying to see his live shows recently(20+ minute versions of new/old songs with no melody or musical value to my ears). Truly nothing but noise, and not ragged glory.

I am grateful for all of his magical music over the years, and he's earned my unyielding respect and gratitude.

Thank you Neil. Keep doing what you do and all of our paths will happily cross on occasion.

At 10/31/2013 11:39:00 PM, Anonymous Johan said...

I can't wait to buy this record. I can afford $40 a year for a Neil Young record with all the money I've saved not buying Lady Gaga and Justin Beber CDs and probably most of the people that are reading this on a computer can too! If not Neil has repeatedly said he doesn't mind downloading mp3's for free. Massey Hall and Sugar Mountain are some of my favourite records so more of the same is more than welcome! I'm sure he wants to get it out there before the Archive2 stuff gets released.


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"Who is John Galt?"
To ask the question is to know the answer

"Whosoever shall give up his liberty for a temporary security
deserves neither liberty nor safety."

~~ Benjamin Franklin


(Between the lines of age)

And in the end, the love you take
Is equal to the love you make

~~ John & Paul

the zen of neil
the power of rust
the karma of the wheat