Musicians as Brands: Neil Young, Patti Smith Discuss Future of Publishing at BookExpo America | Rolling Stone
BookExpo America, New York City June 6, 2012
(Click photo to enlarge)
Still quite a bit of coverage of Patti Smith's conversation with Neil Young at BookExpo America.
An interesting article on their conversation from Rolling Stone by Scott Steinberg:
It seems that both musicians and authors seeking long-term success would do well to invest in themselves. By pairing a range of supporting activities (including the launch of apps, blogs, exclusive subscriber programs, independently-issued releases, etc.) with traditional publishing efforts, they may have the means to create more powerful promotional and business platforms. All can set themselves up to enjoy more stability and leverage, a better position when negotiating deals and a greater measure of control over their creative output.
It's important to note that self- and alt-publishing solutions aren't a panacea for all artists. As was evident at BookExpo America, as in the recording industry, there’s still a future in retail and major label backing, but wise musicians and authors would do well to look at themselves as much as overarching brands as actual artists – and to operate as much as publishing companies as they do as actual talent.
...
As Young explained when comparing his latest work to Smith’s Just Kids, “I’m a highway and landscapes – you’re a city and painted bricks and lots of people. I’m traveling and you are too, but I’m on the road and you’re travelling down streets.” As the specter of tomorrow’s more fan-connected, high-tech publishing world loomed large over BEA, there seemed to be wisdom in taking the road less traveled.
More on "Don’t Chase the Rabbit", Neil Young Says To Patti Smith.
by thrasher@PermaLink: 6/17/2012 07:36:00 PM
39 comments
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Blah, Blah Blah - By all means, Neil, let's monetize the crap out of your "brand"
It's been fun, folks, listening to all the blather again. The Matthews and the Gregs sure do spend a lot of time trying to convince themselves they have something to say. Here's something different:
Over at the Steve Hoffman Forums, there's a discussion about a guy named Schmitt who has done a blog where he critiques the worst 500 hundred reviews he says have ever been done by Rolling Stone. (He only made it up to about 370, but that's not the point). What's interesting is that he has, in the course of several hundred individual entries, actually managed a pretty decent perspective on the Springsteens, the Stones, the Paul Simons, the Princes and yes, the Neil Youngs of the rock universe. His opinions are amusing, self deprecatory, and, mostly, right on. Consider a sampling:
-After the Goldrush
The idea that you have to play a song to death before recording it, or that you should use technology simply because it is available, or that your voice should never strain out of key, is totally wrong-headed and misconstrues everything that is virtuous about rock & roll.
-Time Fades Away
It is inconceivable to me how someone could like Time Fades Away while hating "Don't Be Denied." Or that you could think "Don't Be Denied" sounds remotely like any Buffalo Springfield song. Or that you could think Young's Buffalo Springfield songs are "overweening". It's like even when I sort of agree with Dave Marsh about something, it turns out we couldn't disagree more.
-On the Beach
My favorite Neil Young album. Fortunately, there seems to have been a critical reassessment of On the Beach in the past 30 years, no thanks to RS.
-Comes a Time
A truly inane album, but also sort of a relief from all of the doom and gloom of his other 70s work - Comes a Time is even goofier than Harvest, and one of Young's more enjoyable LPs.
-Trans
In the original review of this album, printed on 2/3/82, one year before this edition of the album guide was published, Parke Puterbaugh awarded Trans 4 stars: "Neil Young is really still a sweephand clock in a digital world, a solitary quester after truth. And he continues to tick for all things enduring: love, humanity, dignity, strength."
For me, this is the only one of Young's 80s genre experiments that actually sort of works, or at least is a more interesting failure than the others. The acoustic half of this record is pretty weak, but I think "Sample & Hold" and "Computer Age" are two of Young's most compelling songs.
Everybody's Rockin'
When I was about 14, I purchased a book compiling every article, in chronological order, ever published about Neil Young in Rolling Stone magazine. I remember being surprised by how harsh some of the reviews were of his 70s records, particularly the After the Goldrush review. But nothing could have prepared me for David Fricke's review of Everybody's Rockin', one of the most deeply disturbing pieces in the entire book.I remember thinking: how the hell could someone who's job it is to write about music actually recommend this crap?
-Old Ways
I would agree that Old Ways is a concept album, if intentionally making a record as boring as possible for the sole purpose of pissing off your label constitutes a "concept".
-Landing on Water
So a record like Hounds of Love is criticized for being "overdecorated," while the horrible, comically inept copies by 60s dinosaurs like Young, Dylan, McCartney and Jagger are all praised for their "freshness." I suppose I would have to agree, though, that this is "truly new" to the extent that a boy's choir yelping "CONTROL THE VIOLENT SIDE" over insane Born in the U.S.A. drums and synths was something no major artist had ever attempted before.
-continued in next comment
continued...
-Freedom
RS first began assigning star ratings to records in 1981, a practice that it discontinued midway through 1985. During this four and a half year period, on average the magazine gave a 5 star "classic" rating to 4-5 albums each year.
RS resumed the star ratings in 1988, but this time around it was more stingy with its 5 star reviews. Now it was typical for only box sets or reissues to be awarded 5 stars. Eric Clapton's Crossroads, for example, was rated 5 stars in the 4/21/88 issue. From 1988-1991, in fact, the only record of new material to receive 5 stars was Neil Young's Freedom.
Freedom consciously evokes Young's last great record, Rust Never Sleeps, with its acoustic and electric bookends of "Rockin' in the Free World." And in many ways, Freedom does open up a new chapter in Young's career, putting an end to the disastrous genre experiments of the 80s. This is certainly his best record of the decade. At the same time, however, none of these songs resonate like his best 70s work - including "Rockin' in the Free World", the simple irony of which hardly approaches the mysterious depths of "Hey Hey My My (Into the Black)." Songs like "Crime in the City" and "Eldorado" are some of Young's most ambitious compositions, but also some of his most inscrutable. "Hangin' on a Limb" and "Wrecking Ball" are both lovely, but a couple of the ballads ("Someday", "The Ways of Love") are truly awful. Perhaps the most annoying song on the album, though, is "Too Far Gone", which was written in the mid-70s, but only officially released for the first time on this album. Thematically, this very personal song does not belong here. What's worse, though, is that Young's lame performance captures none of the intensity of the original '76 version - he basically ruins one of his best songs.
-Silver and Gold
If you come away from this record thinking it is anything less than a masterpiece, the problem isn't Young's garbled, awkward lyrics or the fact that many of the melodies seem to be recycled from earlier songs - the problem is that you just aren't concentrating hard enough.
-Are You Passionate
OK, so you know Neil Young's post-9/11 album must be pretty bad if even Rolling Stone magazine cannot bring itself to award it a minimum of 4 stars. And it is bad. Really, really bad. Of course, Greg Kot cannot come right out and say this - instead, he has to try to feign excitement and justify the record's existence. God, I can't imagine having to bullshit an appreciation for "Let's Roll," possibly the most embarrassing song in Young's entire catalog.
-continued in next comment
concluded...
-Fork in the Road
Start with a few broad generalizations that could describe almost any album (this one is about "the American myth", apparently), name check one of the artist's classic records (rust STILL never sleeps!!), quote a random lyric (whether or not it actually makes sense is irrelevant) -- and you have a review without even having to listen to the album!
OK - so maybe I have a few minor disagreements (Like my feeling that Johnny Magic is not only the worst song in Neil's career, but maybe the worst song in anyone's career (Let's Roll comes close, though) and I have a sneaking fondness for "Someday" even though I don't have a clue what the hell he's singing about, I pretty much think Schmitt has nailed it. Now Matthew and Greg may feign objectivity but this guy walks the walk. Clearly a fan for all the right reasons (On the Beach foremost among them), he's not afraid to look at these guys with a clear eye and call it like it should be called.
So nabobs - it ain't just "no one" - it's pretty much anyone with that one quality that you so sorely lack - taste.
Americana is a small step in the right direction. It sounds fresh in a familiar way and I fervently hope that revisiting these classic melodies will reawaken Neil's dormant melodic genius, which has always been at the core of his artistry. Time will tell. In the meantime let's hope Neil gets his brand monetized.
P.S. In case you think I'm kidding, or exaggerating, following are the lyrics to Johnny Magic:
Johnny Magic has a way with metal
Has a way with machines
One day in a garage far away
He met destiny
In the form of a heavy metal Continental
She was born to run on a Proud Highway
Then the whole world started running out of money
People losing their jobs
Right here in Wichita
Wichita
The home of the heavy metal Continental
Where the Motor-Head Messiah was tuning the system in
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
She burst from the garage in a blaze of silence
Disappearing down Douglas at lightning speed
She was gone before the garage door was down
In Wichita
The home of the heavy metal Continental
Where the Motor-Head Messiah was tuning the system in
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Wichita
The home of the heavy metal Continental
She was born to run on a Proud Highway
Now she goes long range on domestic green fuel
100 miles per gallon is the Continental Rule
Out on the Kansas two-lane flats near Wichita
Wichita
The home of the heavy metal Continental
She was born to run on a Proud Highway
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
The Motor-Head Messiah went to Washington
To show them what he'd done
The senators and congressmen came down
In Washington
And they rode in the heavy metal Continental
She was born to run on a Proud Highway
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Johnny Magic, Johnny Magic
Wichita
The Motor-Head Messiah was tuning the system in
Jeez, what's your point? I didn't want to waste my time wading through a regurgitation of somebody else's rant. It was boring.
Just like on Yelp, everyone's a critic. But who is an actual maker? Talk is cheap.
yip yip yip.....
get a job, no one, you obviously have too much time on yer hands
I stand by my assertion that 'no one' is a 100% certified condescending self-righteous toolbag...
I love On the Beach. That might be Neil Young's best album (next to Fork in the Road, of course!)
Oh look, now it's resorted to the tried-and-true old trolling tactic of spamming the message board with enormous posts full of information that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
How cute, I haven't seen that since the 1990's.
I think Johnny Magic is Neils best song EVER. Thats why I still pay $ 300 for tickets to see him live.Everything he does is great.
Just that some things are greater than others.And Johnny Magic is just Neil at his greatest.
I generally agree with no one on substance, although he is provocative. I do see Thrasher's heavy-handed bias on pro-Neil comments. People are allowed to gush about Neil and his music in broad vague terms, but are not allowed to criticize in such terms.See comment directly above. I agree that Let's Roll is a black eye on AYP. One of those instances when it's obvious there's no one in the studio saying no. The whole of Fork is another such case.
@ Anon 6/18/2012 12:47:00 PM - Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, we'd agree that the above comment on JM uses "broad vague terms". Isn't funny that a comment like that comes in just moments before you cite it as an example?
As always, we're open to suggestions on how we can improve things around here. so, in the spirit of continuous improvement, if you were running TW, how would you modify & implement our Comments Policy?
Just like the main character in "Powderfinger", he analyzed his situation.....to death.
When Neil "came out", there was just the radio, the record and the magazines. NO ONE used a shrink's couch to figure it all out. You played the record (dubbed it onto cassette like me!) and headed out down the road.
Over the weekend, I was at a friends place who had her speakers up on her deck and she played a lot of old Byrd's stuff and One Direction stuff too for her 14 year old daughter. And we played a lot of Neil. The thing is, her 14 year old digs Neil right along with the boy band stuff. I even liked a couple cuts off the boy band CD.
Every song is a musical ride. It takes you places and brings you back. Brings to mind the Moody Blues song "Legend of a Mind".
I have to listen to other artist's in order to get back to Neil.
It puts perspective in my listening and it keeps things lighter so I don't have to THINK TOO GODDAMN MUCH when I decide to take that ride.
And when I do, I have a smile as big as Alfred E. Neuman!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J-LvMxKvFY
Check out this obscure song from one of my first musical heroes!
"It's a Gas!"
Lincvolt has nothin' on this baby!
Shoulda been on the Shocking Pinks LP!
Is that Neil on lead?
I just love Americana. For the first time in years he sounds so unfettered. Just wild and free. Strange that it should be a cover record. The songs really do feel like they're his, theirs. There's so much BREATHING ROOM on this record. So fresh. Just breathe it in. A Day at the Gallery is extraordinary. Such a gem.
Anon -
Provocative???
Try obnoxious, insulting and bullying!
There's nothing at all provocative about acting like a condescending jerk.
You want to express a negative assessment of something, such as Let's Roll? Cool. I actually agree. I don't much care for AYP as a whole, in fact. Never could get into it. And I think Let's Roll missed the target. It's a nice set up for something, but needed a little more work, and a bit more creative energy put into it, IN MY OPINION. I also think that he went for the Ohio formula with it, but it just didn't come out sounding inspired, at least not to me. But that, of course, doesn't make Neil a bad artist. I just didn't dig that particular output.
I like FITR, I think it's a good album.
Okay, so now go ahead: prove my points above by insulting my intelligence, telling me that I have no taste, insinuating that I don't understand music, calling me a sycophant, and an idiot for having an opinion that contradicts the obvious, empirical and universal truth that FITR is a terrible album.
The worst album ever created by a popular music figure, apparently.
I disagree. This makes me a terrible person. A moron. A blind, biased lover of all things Neil!! I'm utterly lacking in taste, and completely beneath your superior ability to discern what qualifies as good music or bad music.
For what it's worth, I think the worst album ever created by a popular music artist is Standing in the Spotlight by Dee Dee King.
Check it out. Seriously.
Matthew, you seem to have some serious self-esteem issues. No one does not have a corner on obnoxious. Chill, man.
Jonathan, are you saying what I think you're saying!?
Hi Thos - trick question? Sarcasm? Look this is the only internet comment board that I post on...I do have a life far beyond the miracle of "cyberspace" (stupid term).
The appreciation of all art is subjective - and that statement should preclude all criticism of the opinions of others. But I guess that fact isn't understood by everyone since some feel the compulsion to ridicule others for their opinions. Hell I've done it myself...I'm human and am sometimes a pathetic hypocrite.
I appreciate Thrasher's blog here more than I've ever genuinely expressed (I've never sent $ though have seriously considered it).
As I get older, I am realizing that all aspects of life are perceived differently by different people around the world. Although I'm a pretty staunch conservative/libertarian, who am I to look down upon the fools who would fall for Obama's/Axelrod's slick used car salesman approach to the mass electorate? OOpps...there I go...
Anyway - as much as I don't like Fork in the Road - some do & that's ok...
I consider myself a huge Neil Young fan even though I don't yet own every album he's ever released...so what?
Hey Toolbag No One - what are you gaining by being such a snarky prick toward this very site?
Sorry...too many beers + a vaporizer...Vick's cold medicine of course...
Having read this blog for sometime,I consider Jonathan and Matthew to be far nastier and intolerant with less genuine contribution than anyone else on the site, by far.
It's OK. Have a Coke and a smile. Or, to misuse my fsvorite line from Back to the Future "Marthew... I am your density."
To translate for the humor (and taste) impaired.... It's okay to like Fork in the Road. I like a lot of crap, too, though more in books than music. Entertainment diesn't have to be art to be enjoyable.
What's not OK is to be a blowhard like, well you know who I mean, who spouts thousands of empty words pretending to have critical faculties while never once, ever, admitting that the artist produces anything thst's not eternally cast in Holy Stone. That's why I posted Schmitt's meta-reviews, to show that you csn be a "real" fan and still find some of his output execrable. If the Matthews and Greg's and Jonathans if the world could ever just climb down from their high horses for a moment (needing a ladder of course, being short of stature as they are) and say "you know, that damned 30 minute guitar solo was really about 25 minutes too long" we could all go home to bed. Fat chance.
Aww, you're just looking for windmills to piss on. I don't think anyone here is unquestioning and non critical. It's just that as normal people they don't have the warped world view and creepy hostility that marks the troll.
Hi jonathan, no sarcasm or criticism intended, I just misinterpreted your post at 10:18:00!
To be honest, the main posters on this blog aren't going to agree here, ever!
What is great, however, is the fact that no-one, Matthew and Jonathan etc are explainIng their views in thoughtful ways, which is a much better quality of debate than we have seen in the past when we used to get the 'Neil Young sucks' 'no he doesn't' shouting matches!
The endless debates with MNOTR were the same, with long carefully constructed arguments from some posters (including mother) that actually made you question your own viewpoint and consider how best to put across your counter-argument.
I like proper debate, keep it up people!
Somes' better'n others
Fathers, sisters and mothers
Brothers in arms
Girlfriends in charms
As for me, I'll have another.
Bring on the new double CD! We'll see if then Neil can measure up to himself.
The f$%^*&g overcoat as he says.
Like what you will, what you can
Take a pill, take a stand
State your next thought
Any way you ought
But please, act like man.
I really do like arthur's comment about music in general. Most people respond favorably to Neilz stuff when it's in the mix and are berry happy knowing very little about him. I played Johnny Magic and people joked about it being one for the dumpster. . Only the folks with the jones for his mmusic or who have homes and swimming pools paid by Neil can't be objective. We only get to see what Neil wants us to see. But cmon folks, some of his music just sucks. Just because he's an artist or can afford to behave like one doesn't mean that everything he does is "art.". Remember art is just a dog to him. He wanted to be famous. Groveled and clawed his way to where he is. He did terrible terrible things along the way. Hurt a lot of people. You can suck at being a human being and be a really good artist. Sure he's sorry and all is forgiven. Sure worked out great for him. Moral of the story? Do what you want at whatever cost. It doesn't matter because in the end the fans love you. Theres no business like show business.
Hahahahaha!! Unfettered Neil! You make him sound like a fat house cat now! Ssweet chariot came and hauled off crazy horse and Neil long time ago.. Briggs is laughing his ass off through his 2 way mirror! Neil sold out his fans to the fat house cat life. Only his true fans know a gen when they see it. Yes lenoisec was a true gem. Sorry fForkinthe road was crayons in the coloring book.What you haver here is a mountain of aluminum foil and tin hats.
Hey look, I don't mind criticism of Neil, I even waded in years ago to comment on how much I hated FITR!
But at least I had/have the balls to sign my comments - you don't even have to use your own name (I do as it happens), so to use anonymous is either really lazy or suggests you have a hidden agenda.
But mostly, there can be multiple anonymous posts, so it is hard to work out who has said what, and thus difficult to see continuity of thought in an argument.
So please sign in/up!
Hahahahaha! You think because someone signs a name or uses a cute reference to a song they're not anonymous? Aren't you all anonymous? Just a blank face in the crowd that Neil sings to when he needs cash?
Listen to my point, idiot.
There is only one 'no one' on this blog, and only only one 'Arthur' on this blog (to name two examples). Therefore we can guage their opinions and the continuity of their argument from reading all of their posts. Any number of people can use 'anonymous' and therefore it is impossible to work out if you are reading the opinions of a single 'anonymous' or to multiple ones.
As I said, feel free to use a pseudonym if you want to retain anonymity, but at least have the courage to stand by your posts/opinions and let them be judged as a whole.
The topic is branding of musicians. For rocknroll branding was everything. The more spaced out and doped up you were, the cooler you were. Extra brownie points for how many times you could say "fuck" putting Patti up there with the rest of the sailors. Models were also part of the branding too because regular people always looked 10!lbs heavier in photoshoots made to look candid. Managers hated when their clients were into little boys and girls which wasnt part of the branding but tolerated heroin addiction because it was part branding and also part of controlling the brand. Branding came from the message you were packaging. Neils special brand was that he wanted to be Dylan. Wasn't ever sure about Patti bc she came along after the golldrush (after rocknroll died )acting bored of the music scene when she wasnt throwing up. Branding rocknroll has beens is like selling christianity to jews which is why neither of them can play MSG without the help of arcade fire, wilco, or Justin Beaver.
"I don’t pay attention to it [whether an album is successful or not]. That’s what I’ve learned. I keep moving. Don’t bother to read it. If you do read it, don’t take it seriously. People are liking the records now, but I’ll have more peaks and valleys. I’ll put some other record out and people will say it’s a piece of s**t. They’ll laugh. It’s inevitable. It just goes up and down, and the tops are not really that much better than the bottoms. So long as you’re moving."
-Neil Young
--------------------
We, as fans , tend to forget this.
This is all getting a bit out of hand, n'est-ce pas?
Bottom line is: chill out, 'cause it's all one song!
-Marc C.
Trolls constantly prove my assumption that they are angry-at-the-world bedridden shut-ins. They've got their keyboards and their internet connections and they spend their miserable days wandering from website to website, trying to toss as many stink bombs as possible. They fancy themselves provocateurs, when in reality they are sad sack misanthropes, notable for their poor spelling, grammatical errors, and clumsy ranting that they consider "argument."
Creepy, too.
Zuma the jokes on you. The person you described is not only Neil in the flesh who inherited none of his father's writing talents but most of the bloodsuckers employed by Neil!
The above proves my point.
spelling error- check
clumsy ranting- check
I'll add to the list florid and hyperbolic language, i.e. "bloodsuckers"
Also add nonsensical argument and evaluation, such as the comparison between the father and the son.
They also have a penchant to personalize their complaints, as though they have a direct, familiar connection with the person they are attacking. Not criticizing, but attacking as though the artist has personally betrayed some perceived bond. This is when the creep factor comes in.
Got an id:
Thrasher, why don't you open a thread in which only the most DIEhard fanatics / worshippers of deity NY have to confess which album or song they really DISLIKE or maybe even HATE or struggle to appreciate but fail to do so.
Name just one song or one album and one reason why.
This may clear their name of all blame that is thrown upon them. and proves there really is no difference between us all, worshippers and condemners... everybody hates some song of Neil!
My candidate: MidEast Vacation. Can't stand the plastic synthesizers, the sound effects. No clue about the lyrics. Let's Roll had some meaning but this is a complete mystery to me.
Thanks peter for the suggestion.
And thanks to all for your patience as we go thru yet another in the endless cycle of Neil bashing.
During these times when we fell like throwing up our keyboard we consider doing something like what you're suggesting and maybe we just will.
Fair warning that this will likely increase as Neil cycles thru another highly productive career phase with films, books, albums, tours, etc
ps - we kinda like that Mideast Vacation was such a perfect foreshadowing of what would be come of the US's Mideast foreign policy.
As for the synths?! Who knew Poncho was so techno!? ;)
Are you really this dense, or are you just playing a pretty cynical game to keep your traffic numbers up? There is very little "Neil bashing" here. There are people who feel that there is some benefit to an honest critical evaluation of his work. If you don't like what they have to say then don't publish it. Those of you who are left can gather round the campfire and sing Kumbaya. But quit whining.
Yes no one, we're dense.
Please explain your motivation on why you've commented 6 times on this thread alone?
"But my mother, she never stopped believing it. And every time she felt down, maybe like you are tonight, you know what she did? She put on your records and sang along. All those long winters, in that tiny apartment of ours, she'd sit there, knees tucked up under her, glass of something in her hand, and she'd sing along softly. And sometime's, I remember this, Mr. Gardner, our neighbors upstairs would bang on the ceiling, especially when you were doing those big up-tempo numbers, like High Hopes or They All Laughed. I used to watch my mother carefully, but it was like she hadn't heard a thing, she'd be listening to you, nodding her head to the beat, her lips moving with the lyrics. Mr. Gardner, I wanted to say to you. Your music helped my mother through those times, it must have helped millions of others. And it's only right it should help you too."
--Kazuo Ishiguro
from Crooner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqXHo2PmkQI
Very thought provoking vignette, Mr. Henry. Wasn't able to find the link on YouTube, any ideas?
A Friend Of Yours
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