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Tuesday, March 24, 2009

An Archives Analysis: It's Such A Fine Line

archives-box-neil-young-cu.jpg
See? The Archives really exist!


Could it be that after 20+ years that the Neil Young Archives actually will be released? After all that we've been through over the past 2 years or so it does seem that the end -- or beginning -- is near.

But of course we've said that before. A few times. Actually, quite often.

(Incidentally, we're still in the running for the 'When Will The Archives Be Released Rust Poll' that Randy put together back in 1997. We guessed 2001 -- the latest date of all the contest entries. The other leading contestant voted 'Never'. Of course, the 'Never' answer may still win!)

But at least now we have a full Archives track listing. And another target release date which is now set for June 2, 2009. But last time we checked SIPS, over a third of fans didn't think they'd see a release in 2009 or ever.

We're not going to go out on a limb and venture another guess on this but we just have to say that with all the new details that are coming in from the SXSW conference panel that L.A. Johnson and Elliott Roberts held on Saturday, this latest release date may hold up.

So what are we getting? Last year, Archives Guy broke it all down this way:
Total tracks: 128
Total unreleased tracks (including 4 hidden): 48
Previously unreleased song or instrumental 15
Previously unreleased version 24
Previously unreleased mix 8
Previously unreleased montage 1

Total released tracks (including 8 hidden): 80
Previously released track 70
Previously limited release only 10
-----------------------------------------------------------
As you read the breakdown above, please keep in mind that the track list for the set has been in place for many years and that if Live At The Fillmore East and Live At Massey Hall had been not released as Archives previews, the track count would have been as follows:

Total unreleased tracks (including 4 hidden): 71
Total released tracks (including 8 hidden): 56

Now there's been a huge amount of criticism of the track listing in this blog's comments.

We can not begin to sort out all the various wishes and questions but for the sake of a few discussions, folks seem perturbed by incomplete albums missing key tracks.

A thought on this. Supposedly, the 4 albums Neil Young, EKTIN, Goldrush, & Harvest are being re-mastered and re-released at some point. This may explain a lot of the marketing rationale for missing tracks.

But our take on this that we've always maintained is that the NYA has always been about the Blu-Ray version. we're just speculating here, but we strongly feel that Blu-Ray box buyers will be made whole in the long run. The live updates will fill in missing tracks. Add rare unreleased tracks. Add video, photos, etc.

Neil's letter alludes to being warned about going for BD. We think that non BD buyers are going to realize that are stuck with inert disks instead of a living, breathing dynamic NYA.

There have been lots of calls for a NYA FAQ to handle the technical and non-technical questions that have arisen over the past year or so. It was our understanding that would happen when the website was launched. But no sign as of yet so can't say for sure.

In the meantime, Archives Guy -- our official inside source -- has re-appeared to provide a few answers.
I'll find out about UK orders thru ny.com

BD and DVD are region free

Tracklist doesn't list the hidden tracks, video and film clips or Easter eggs...CDs have no hidden tracks

There will be more van der Linden footage on North Country.

Pre order folks get to test drive BD live with the Disc 0 that they get before the release date.

In reply to a few questions-

Yes, all the previously released tracks have been remastered at Redwood Digital from the master tapes.

The hidden tracks are HIDDEN and don't appear in the pre-order track list. You get this information when you play your BD or DVD.

The individual disc offer is only available online thru neilyoung.com. You will not be able to buy these in a record store. Each individual disc will have different packaging than those in the box editions. Each individual disc will have a booklet with it's track list, song info and credits.

The Anon who mentioned that this is a comprehensive collection and therefore should include all the well known and famous songs has hit the bullseye in understanding why many previously released tracks are included (remastered). This isn't just a collection for the intense fanatic who already knows way more about Neil Young than any sane person should....it is for everyone and therefore offers a complete picture.

The mp3 download includes only the tracks on Volume One. It doesn't include any future releases or BD-Live material. The BD-Live content can only be accessed via Blu-ray. Won't be ever on
DVD or CD or mp3.

The mp3 download is done with a card that comes in the set with a code on it. Yes you can download it with your computer. It is only the BD-Live downloads that are limited to PS3 and other internet ready BD players.

Clancy- the release date won't be delayed again. the set is ready now...whereas it wasn't before.
You can go back to sleep now.

I'll see that the web guys do something about the NY letter/cookies issue.


Fork In The Road will be released on Blu-ray and is currently in production with a TBA release date.

The main video program for the disc will be a full length performance piece and NOT one of our screensaver/wallpaper releases.

Audio of course will be 24 bit/ 192 kHz uncompressed.

Live At Canterbury House is not scheduled at this time for BD release.


The mp3 download card comes with
BD and DVD. I'll find out the compression for you.
It won't be FLAC.

Doonerak- you bring up a good point about the 2 Canterbury tunes now being released. Text and graphic
were finished before the Camterbury release so we are going to find a number of details to be corrected on the preorder site. Such updates and other revisions that didn't make the book deadline will be provided as an errata sheet on the web which can be printed out and kept in the archives book for reference. I'm sure than you can understand that with the enourmous amount of content spread out over a number of formats, a few details might get glazed over.

BE player will be coming but of you go back thru Thrashers you can find discussion and info from me. In short you want a profile 2.0 player with Internet connectivity.

Quality differences between BD and DVD are explained on the preorder site.

Once again hidden tracks are hidden tracks. Asking what they are is liking asking your parents what the contents of your Xmas packages are in November.

Early Years is dvided into 2 discs on BD and DVD because of content size. It takes dual layer discs to fit it all. Conversely the audio as 16/44 can fit on one CD..clocking in at 79 minutes.

I'll get the preorder page updated this week.

Lastly, we did not mean to imply earlier that someone is a "whiner" who has legitimate questions about their upcoming purchase. We're referring to the clowns who want "Toast" and their ilk with pretty unrealistic requests.

As we indicated before, Neil fans were instrumental in The Archives undergoing radical format revisions after the product was all but release ready. In this time of budget crisis, one can only imagine the howls if Neil had stuck to the "if you want it, you'll get on Blu-Ray only" mentality. we've come a long way with a virtually infinite combination of purchase options.

So, as our embattled blog commenter Pinto (or Flounder) posts on Archives dissatisfaction:
I think this opinion does a real disservice to the artist and the people who have spent the last few years assembling a package that is unprecedented in its scope, its future adaptability, and its response to external reactions. I don't remember Coppola soliciting outside opinions when assembling the various versions of the Godfathers; I don't remember Dylan asking for input when he's put together his archive releases, and I know that no one, on any level, has used the very latest technology to provide room for constant expansion of the archival record.

elliot-roberts-la-johnson-sxsw-0309.jpg
L.A. Johnson and Elliot Roberts
SXSW Panel, Austin, Texas


As Paul Cashmere reports on Undercover, he asked Young's Manager Elliot Roberts at SXSW when will the upcoming Archive series catch up with real-time. “Not in our life-time. And I mean that literally,” he said. Actually I’m sure if we all stay healthy and exercise we will survive long enough to see the next few editions. Volume two from 1975 will be released in 2 to 3 years and L.A. Johnson said that over the next 10 years they expect to have four decades covered.

Young's Manager Elliot Roberts said at SXSW:
"This is not a box-set, it is a biography. It is his life. You get a look into an artist that you have never seen before."

Thanks Archives Guy!


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39 Comments:

At 3/24/2009 04:17:00 AM, Anonymous Daniel from Germany said...

Hi,
I can tell you I am disappointed too about the archives release.
Just the facts:

- why isn´t the book included in the CD-Edition?

It is a shame because as a younger Neil Young Fan I always bought the releases from him on CD. Why couldn´t it be possible just to listen to the music AND to be able to join the whole package?
Now I have to pay 40 bucks for the book AND I don´t have such a good packaging like the other editions.

- why isn´t the Journey Through The Past DVD included in the CD-Edition?

It would have been nice if they include this movie in part of a bonus DVD on this edition. Now I also have to buy it seperately AND the packaging at all isn´t any real boxset packaging. Nothing does fit at all. So I have the CD´s, the book and the DVD. And no packaging for it. And by the way: where´s the poster?

- Once again: like many others said. I don´t have the money to buy a Bluray Player only for this release.

Everything is fine about the archives release. The fact hurts, that you cannot get the whole audio material and the Journy Through The Past DVD in a packaging like available in the other editions. Really, it hurts after so many years. I don´t understand it at all.
It is like Neil Young is saying: Okay folks, if you don´t have enough money and you do not think about Blu-Ray like I do then you are not worth of joining this release.
Neil Young is meaning everything to me. He is the silent attendant of my whole life. It is always like "What would Neil Young do"?

But now I don´t understand him at all.

What about the fact that the Blu-Ray edition comes with free mp3 downloads of the tracks BUT ONLY FOR VOLUME ONE.
Is this true?
So what about the future releases? If I cannot listen to the music anywhere I would like listen to it everything is a big mismanagement!

The folks will get their music illegally on the net. It will be a big thing with the archives audio tracks!
Why did I say "their music"? It is just the fact that the people will give 300 dollars to buy the Archives and but they are still tied up to their TV-screen.

I´m a dreamin´ man
Yes, that´s my problem

 
At 3/24/2009 05:05:00 AM, Anonymous Nicolas Spilmont said...

I think that for some (most ?) of us, the Archives are like a fantasy that should never be satisfied ! When you have been dreaming of something for years (decades in our specific case...), you are obviously disappointed when your dream comes true...
I have been listening to Neil for about 15 years now (I'm 31) and have always been hearing about the Archives project. I will buy the Archives (most probably the DVD's) because I love Neil's music and also respect him as an artist: there must be a good reason for the track-listing to be as it is. Of course, we all would have liked to get more "unrealeased" tracks, but we already have them (in ABD, bootlegs, etc...) !
Finally, my opinion is that, even with more unrealeased tracks, even with ALL kown-to-date unrealeased tracks included in the Archives, there would have been people (should I write "fans" ?) to complain. These people are bitter, when they could just ENJOY !

Thank you Thrasher, Archives Guy, Neil + management.
Looking forward to listening to the Archives and seing Neil in Antwerpen on June 6 !

Nicolas, from France

 
At 3/24/2009 07:45:00 AM, Anonymous Marc C said...

jesus...where does that picture of the Archives box set come from at the top of this page? i'd like to get a closer look at that....the set's alot bigger than i expected!!!

-Marc C

 
At 3/24/2009 08:00:00 AM, Anonymous karen/streamland said...

Hmm. I understand that people have questions, this is a long-awaited retrospective on a very well-loved artist's work, but I really don't understand the complaints. It is what it is, folks, like it or don't, buy it or don't. You probably haven't agreed with all of Neil's decisions along the way either, but you still love the guy, right? Support the artist you have loved for so many years in what is surely one of the most difficult and monumental tasks he has faced as an artist, compiling all this stuff (technical term).

For the record, I am going to trust NY on this one and get the Blu-Ray. And I cannot WAIT to get it. I am every bit as excited now as I was the very first day I heard that there was such a thing as "The Archives" (please insert chorus of angels here).

And, as an aside, thanks for being so responsive to fan questions/concerns, Archives Guy, as always. We are so used to so many years of silence from the NY camp that is beyond startling (at least to me) that we are now getting timely and useful information. And thanks, NY, for The Archives, and all that came before.

love, karen/streamland

 
At 3/24/2009 08:16:00 AM, Blogger Charles said...

A couple comments:

1. I greatly appreciate the information from Archives Guy, but I have news for him: this set is NOT for non-fanatic Neil Young fans. No one who's not really into the guy is going to go out and buy a $300 set on Blu-Ray.

2. Putting out an set that will not be all inclusive means that NY wants us to either (1) buy a BD player and splurge on the BD set (for supposed future updates) or (2) buy this set and THEN buy the complete remastered albums when they are (supposedly) released.

I feel deeply ripped off by Neil, who I've always had the utmost respect for in the past. Either release the complete archive - meaning really complete - or make the unreleased material available as a stand alone unit. Being forced to buy partial sets of things really galls me.

Of course, some will say, don't buy it. But don't you understand - I love NY, and I want a complete set of his stuff. But I don't want to be put in a position of either having to spend money I don't have to get a BD player and the BD set, or of having to needlessly repurchase the same things (LP, CD, BD, etc.).

Come on, Neil. Put out your unreleased material as a stand alone unit!

Charlie

 
At 3/24/2009 08:43:00 AM, OpenID asylumletters said...

Still waiting and wondering. Being unemployed has put a kink in the anticipation due to lack of cash. But things will all work out for all of us and we just don't know what the future holds...

 
At 3/24/2009 09:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thrasher - first of all, i really appreciate all the effort you put into this site, and consider it invaluable.

That said, you now come across as a constant suck-up to Neil, a classic rumpswab, defending his every move.

This line really gets my temperature boiling:

".....As you read the breakdown above, please keep in mind that the track list for the set has been in place for many years and that if Live At The Fillmore East and Live At Massey Hall had been not released as Archives previews, the track count would have been as follows:

Total unreleased tracks (including 4 hidden): 71
Total released tracks (including 8 hidden): 56....."

Are you trying to justify the lack of unreleased material, Thrasher? The fact of the matter is, Neil released Massey Hall and Fillmore....people who chose to buy those CDs had to pay for it. Now, if you want the box, you pay for them again. This is my main complaint with the Archives - Neil is milking his consumers!!!

Cut the crap and stop saying Neil released this out of concern for his fans, to offer them a sample of the Archives. YAWN.

Also, a few years ago, Neil released four songs from Live at Riverboat as BONUS tracks so, technically, the actually number of truly unreleased tracks goes down by 4.

Additionally, in the early 90s, Neil released a disc called "Hard to Find", via Westwood One (i have it). This disc culled together a bunch of unreleased material....Hmmm, how much you want to bet some of this ends up on the Archives - once again, depleting the actual number of unreleased songs. AGAIN!

http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=332565

1. Mr. Soul - BS Non-LP Version
2. Radio Spot For 'Neil Young' - 1st Album
3. If I Could Have Her Tonight - Original Version/Mix
4. I've Been Waiting For You - Original Version/Mix
5. Here We Are In The Years - Original Version/Mix
6. What Did You Do In My Life - Original Version/Mix
7. Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere - Alternate Version
8. Radio Spot For 'Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere'
9. Cinnamon Girl - Edited Version With Different Vocal
10. Radio Spot For 'After The Gold Rush'
11. Birds - Alternate/Non-LP Version
12. War Song - Non-LP
13. The Last Trip To Tulsa - Live Jan. 18, 1973 - Non-LP
14. Pushed It Over The End - Live Aug. 27, 1974, CSNY 12" Single
15. Campaigner - Original Extra Verse Version
16. Home On The Range - 12" Single Version
17. Weight Of The World - Extended Remix 12"Single
18. This Note's For You - Live Apr. 13, 1988, Unedited Full length Version
19. No More - Live Sept. 30, 1989
20. Don't Spook The Horse - Non-LP

BTW, Thrasher, i'm anonymous and PROUD OF IT! If i had a screen name would that make my post any more valid?

Sponsored by Nobody!

 
At 3/24/2009 10:07:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sure looks like Neil himself in that photo!

-Chicago

 
At 3/24/2009 10:35:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

that's not neil in the photo. no wedding ring (unless he's trying to get some on the sly).

and a third of poll respondents think the archives will never come out?

why, they must be NEIL HATERS!!!

-NAG

 
At 3/24/2009 10:42:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

good idea with the FAQ !!!


As many others i am looking for the right bluray player.

My question is about the bonus stuff which will come for bluray-download. if the quality of the download stuff is good, it will have some megabytes, or even GB´s. Do i need a player with lots of intern data space? can i just plug an extern hard disk to this player or how does it work with the additional stuff.
i really dont want to realize in summer that my bluray player can´t store the extra stuff.


and what about the displays.

i have just a notebook for television and watching dvd´s.
so i need a TFT Monitor to connect with the bd-player. i get high quality bluray discs which maybe end up in bullshit quality because of a non good monitor/tv???
the screen is the thing that makes the archives hardware costly. the bd-player i can get for 120 to 150 euros. but a good and big display????
it would be nice if anyone can provide infos about the display thing....

but anyway looking forward to see neil in europe again!!!!

phil

 
At 3/24/2009 11:19:00 AM, Blogger Doonerak said...

This whole thing is about leverage. Neil wants to promote Blu-Ray as a post CD medium, with the Shakey Platform as the new way to deliver content. If he gave away the videos with the CD he'd lose that leverage

 
At 3/24/2009 11:49:00 AM, Blogger Mark said...

Wow, the physical size is enormous. I have no idea where I'm going to put that.

 
At 3/24/2009 12:03:00 PM, Blogger rmontilio said...

I'm tired of this. I believe that Neil Young is genuinely interested in releasing his stuff in the best quality, but after reading his letter... I just have to pass. I like his music, but not enough to have to own every song that exists, or may exist. And of course, the price is out of sight.

 
At 3/24/2009 12:13:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's what came up over here too. The physical size is enormous. Where did you get this picture T.? Looks like there's a free BD player build in the box. But my first impression was that this is a picture of "the 200 grams black gold edition". It's not hard to think this is what I do want to see and therefore might have influenced my thoughts. There's also a smaller box in the background?

The Archives vol.1 contains REMASTERED versions of some songs you think you might have heard before. I deeply have the feeling the remastered versions make the songs completely new. We do know some of the melodies and lyrics but the rematered tunes will transform them into brand new songs. So, there will be 128 brand new songs on the Archives Vol.1. (minus the Massey and Fillmore discs).

The Archives will be great!

All the complains made me think of the release of the Fillmore cd/DVD. So many people complaining about the "missing acoustic set". I was happy with the disc because I never heard Cowgirl In The Sand like this before. The best ever version of that great song. I wouldn't even want to think of it that i never could have listen to this great live performance.
Keep on blogging Neil! BSM

 
At 3/24/2009 12:22:00 PM, Anonymous pdh1978 said...

I think the archives look great, especially after watching the advert on neilyoung.com. The only real concern I have is how many of the archives sets will be released. If volume 1 covers '63-'72, does that mean volume 2 will be approximately '73 - '81? Volume 3 '82 - '91??
Going by the pictures, the NEIL YOUNG fits nicely around 4 sides of the box, but will this ultimately lead to 4 boxes so that the NEIL YOUNG scrolls along your shelf? Or will the later archive sets be slimmer (i.e. more than 4 volumes).
I don't know if I'm making this clear, so let's try to get down to the jist of it - people are (rightfully) trying to justify to themselves spending $300 on Volume 1. But what will the overall price for completing the Archives? Will we be shelling out $1200? Or closer to $3000??

 
At 3/24/2009 12:50:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THE ARCHIVES ARE PRICELESS!

 
At 3/24/2009 12:52:00 PM, Blogger BrotherWill said...

I really can't believe how many ungrateful assholes say they're Neil Young "fans". All I know is that if you are fans, I hope I never end up in next to you at a Neil concert. All of your fucking complaining is nauseating. I'm you'd probably drown out the music with your constant bitching that he's not playing what you want to hear.

I'm so much of a geek about Neil Young that I own all the most famous bootlegs on CD and LP and MP3. I have many, many live shows, the "Archives Be Damned" set, every single release on pristine vinyl, 3 copies of his first LP with no name on it, everyone of his singles from 1968- 1977 and rare posters and t-shirts. Its embarrassing how much i love the guy's music.

You know what, I really do wish there were a few particular tracks that ended up not showing up, but its that way on every other box set I've ever bought from another artist. The Beach Boys box set was missing a lot of "Smile" tracks and "Adult Child" tracks that could've been on there. I have more Bob Dylan bootlegs than all of his official releases combined. So many amazing versions and unreleased songs. I WISH Dylan would release more of them officially, remastered, but we get what we can - how we can.

Neil has come along and is about to give us something that no other iconic rock musician has ever even tried - and this is only the first volume. The Beatles won't even update their catalog. Neil is gonna give us ,what looks like, a trip inside his memories and heart. I have been waiting for this for at least 15 years and its actually going to come out in June!!! Be grateful. And if you really are such a HUGE Neil fan like so many of you complainers say you are, then go out to every thrift store, flea market, stadium parking lot, mailing list and message board like I've had to do my whole life and hunt down those tracks. They are out there. If you're a real fan, you'll make some sacrifices to get what you want. I'm selling a guitar to buy the PS3 and box set. What are you gonna sell?

 
At 3/24/2009 12:54:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will be far above the $3000 because you might want a BD player, you want to see the man in concert as much as possible, buy all the other releases, get vinyl copies etc. etc.

And after all you are still free to choose for this.

 
At 3/24/2009 01:23:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I envy those having the opportunity to experience the archives in Blue-ray, as expensive as it is I'm sure it's worth it. I understand that the ambition of this project is to be something more than simply stacking songs together on a few compact discs.

Unfortunately, given my incredibly small budget I'll have to stick with the CD edition. Still looking forward to it though! I guess I'm kinda fortunate not to have purchased 'Live at Massey Hall 1971' or 'Crazy Horse at the Fillmore 1970'. Only 5 days after my birthday as well.

I'd suggest to those getting wound up by the negative comments not to respond to them, all this discussion about ungrateful fans is only clouding out the positive responses.

 
At 3/24/2009 01:44:00 PM, Blogger Greg McGarvey said...

"If i had a screen name would that make my post any more valid?"

Honestly, if I have a limited amount of time on a blog, I only read signed posts. YMMV, but anonymous posts give me the impression that, perhaps, things are being said that wouldn't be said to someone's face, or things that the writer isn't comfortable being associated with until the death of the 0 and 1. That doesn't interest me. I prefer reading things that people are willing to stand behind.

Of course, some people just don't feel like signing up for an account, and that's understandable, too. That's Mr. Wheat's call, as it's his blog. I vote for logins, as the signup process takes less time than most thoughtful posts take to type.

I'm not talking about you (...whomever you are... *cue sci-fi sound effects*), but sometimes when I read anonymous comments on blogs, I picture a guy or girl (no, I picture a guy) having a bad day at a job trying to blame it on things like Neil Young's sociopolitical views, the lyrics to Neil Young's 4,345 song, a dude who runs a free web site, or another poster on said free web site. F that. Just go punch your boss! ;)

 
At 3/24/2009 02:06:00 PM, Blogger Greg McGarvey said...

Also, it's true that we were told we could buy a version of the box without Massey and Fillmore. Selling individual discs of Archives is generous and will remedy this, as long as they offer the box as an individual purchase, too. It's a minor thing, sure, but no one wants to buy a box set and then make their own box for it.

I disagree that Hard To Find / Legend Of The Loner is a significant release. I've also had it for years and it sounds like shit.

 
At 3/24/2009 02:13:00 PM, Blogger john said...

Well,I got my PS3 before last Christmas, chiefly for the Archives,and here we are,on the eve of release.

Thanks to Neil & the team,including you Archives Guy,for realising this revolutionary product.Now,I cannot wait to get my hands on those Archives and explore it's manifold wonders.

As for the naysayers,how can you criticise what you haven't even looked at or seen? Talk about moaning Minnies!

 
At 3/24/2009 02:15:00 PM, Anonymous SONY said...

""My life's at a point where I'd rather get rid of my material things and turn them into money to do the LincVolt," he told Rolling Stone last October.""

That's Neil's quote. You think he's lying?

It's "selling off" the warehouse, not necessarily 'selling out' the warehouse.

The rest is up to you.

 
At 3/24/2009 02:17:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to echo my dissapointment that people have so many complaints ... after much thought I've come to a couple personal observations:
1. Most of the folks who justify their complaints by saying their disappointment is due to the fact that Neil wrote the soundtrack to their life or because they love Neil so much are really saying (even if they don't realize it) that they love themselves so much that they feel slighted that Neil wasn't willing to create a personalized option just for them ... in other words either their interest in Neil has become an unhealthy obsession and it has become personal, or they have a deep sense of entitlement and the internet and its anonimity gives them an outlet to express that deep sense of entitlement. In truth, those of us who get slightly (or very) annoyed feel that way because we're here on TW to express our joy for all things Neil and our sense of wonder for how one person (and his exceptionally talented and dedicated team) can churn out so many fabulous works of art so consistently. Meanwhile, some folks are throwing cold water on the collective celebration because of their, for lack of a better term, personality issues.

I don't mean to disparage every negative comment. I do think that not all of Neil's output will be on the same level, it won't strike everyone the same way, not everyone will always agree with his current project or political leanings ... and its reasonable to express opinions if they are balanced and thought out ... but some comments whether about FITR or the Archives border on ridiculuous .. they reflect poorly on the authors and sure, an open internet blog is an open party, but crashing a party and having a lack of sensativity to its social dynamics is very selfish ... nobody can draw a clear picture as to what constitutes going over the line ... most people know it when the see it though and truly for those who wish to go over that line they should create a blog dedicated to complaining about what they don't like.

2. Another type of complaint is a person who feels unhappy because they feel jealous of what others have ... so even though Neil is giving them so much, they feel unhappy because someone else got more. Again, these type of complaints are a reflection of a peron's personal issues and maturity but they impinge on the group because these people express their deep dissapointment as if Neil shortchanged them. There are a number of manifistations but they include people who will buy the CD set because they can't afford the BD set and then they'll complain about not getting access to the downloads. The same when Neil is playing a tour but not in their city. As if better for Neil to not be on tour if I have to drive 90 miles to see him. The same types complain about ticket prices even though general admission tickets were offered front row, for $75, and with a pre-order .. BUT, they are so jealous of the person who got a seat (farther away I would add) that they can't appreciate the gift Neil (and Elliot) gave them of best seats at cheapest prices. And it goes on and on. The problem here is that some people, sadly, are unable or unwilling to be grateful, the default to a position of kicking a gift horse in the mouth, and refuse to see the waves of good that Neil keeps putting out there. Nobody here is against free speech and well thought out, balanced criticism has a place, but at some point the complaints coming from those that can't appreciate what they have wear thin ...

For those who are dissapointed about the archives because dreams are always better than reality, enjoy Archives 1 and dream about 2,3,4,5 .... with Neil's canon there is plenty to dream about.

For those who are suffering financially, as many are right now, you don't have to buy a BD player today, you can buy the BD set, use the download function and buy a set in the future, prices will come down dramatically. If you can't afford the $300 (totally understandable these days) then make a friend and go to their house, I'm sure fans will be making Archives parties when this comes out. If you want the book and the CD package, I'm sure there will be books for sale on ebay or fan sites, fans sell tickets below market to each other why should a book be any different?

Finally, suggesting that Neil is doing this for the money is assine. As a financial analyst (there's a bailout coming but its not for me) I've done some back of the envelope calculations and it seems almost impossible that Neil will ever turn a profit on this project and if you've followed Neil over the years and this project you'll realize this ain't about the money ... he could have done this 20 different ways and would have made more, every modification he made based on fan feedback cut his profits, every year he waited and re-did into a different format raised the costs (and the losses) on this project... this is a labor of love, few indivuduals in any field possess the stamina, determination, commitment, perfectionism, and vision to pull off such a thing... this is a mega-project on an incomrehensible scale, it re-sets any standard ever set in the industry, it upgrades every recording he's ever made ... the BD format is the platform that will enable him to push his whole cannon (released and unreleased) into a muti-media platform for the 21st century ... Neil has invited along if we choose to come and has (by my calculations) effectively subsidized the journey for all(beleive it or not) ... this release is the start, there is 80% still in the vault and as Neil said in his letter, stiff is flowing in all the time, ...

I don't blame Trasher for feeling exasperated at times ... he himself (in my view) has created a blog worthy of Neil's high standards and he gets it, the blog is to enjoy what Neil's up to as mentioned above ... so at some point he's doing the hard work of creating awesome content and maintaining the site (for no pay and little fan fair) and the party crashers are all over ... that's not sucking up to Neil, its simply seeing reality and the reality of how incredible it is today to be a Neil fan and being able to be grateful to be along for the ride.

In the end, join the party, enjoy the festivities, partake at whatever level you can but please, if the problem is you can't be happy, try to follow the advice we all all learned in kindergarten: "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all."

 
At 3/24/2009 02:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, I forgot to sign that long manifesto.
Dan

 
At 3/24/2009 03:25:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to know where is the Horse. Will we see him again ? I miss the Horse, I miss this sound, I'd like to see these guys again before I'll die.
Great job Trasher, anyway, and thanks to be here.

JOHN.

 
At 3/24/2009 03:26:00 PM, Anonymous pdh1978 said...

Can I just point out that I wasn't making a complaint about cost, I am just wondering if anybody could give us an estimate of how many will be released (Archives Guy?).
If I know that there will be 5 volumes and they will be released over the next 10 years, great - I know how much to budget for.

 
At 3/24/2009 03:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello,
I have a question. I'm pretty torn between the formats and only after reading Neil's letter did I start considering Blu-ray. Problem is I live in the sticks. Not really, but close enough that cable is not available and I have just a dial up internet connection. Does it make any sense for me to buy the Blu-Ray player so I can buy this and future volumes? I understand the perks of Blu-Ray but the downloads are a little unclear. The downloads are stored on the player itself? I can't download available material at work or at a friend's house using his player and transfer it to my player? I'd appreciate it if someone could make some sense of it.
Thanks,
Not Down with the Down Loads

 
At 3/24/2009 03:37:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Neil, please play in Poland this year, Polish fans are waiting for you, and make their dream finally come true! We are waiting for you!

 
At 3/24/2009 03:55:00 PM, Blogger chase said...

[You recorded another album with Crazy Horse in '69 straight after Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere, that also had Jack Nitzsche on piano. It was apparently a sort of country-rock affair and most of the tracks were recorded live. Then you scrapped it all of a sudden and put out Goldrush instead. Why?]

"Well, it wasn't really scrapped... It exists... See, things were moving very quickly at that time so it's hard to say... exactly why I went for Goldrush instead of that project. I just remember thinking that Goldrush was the next logical step after Everybody. Just after I'd begun playing with CSN&Y, I went out on the road and did some really funky things that indicated that our next album would be in that particular vein. We recorded 'Wonderin'', 'Dance, Dance, Dance', 'It Might have Been', 'Winterlong' and several others. They'll appear on the Archives, I've had them transferred to digital." [1]

"Another song from that period [when I was growing up] that I loved, and also ended up doing a version of with Crazy Horse and Jack Nitzsche on piano, that's going to end up on Archives — it's a country waltz called 'It Might Have Been' recorded by Jo London. It was a big hit in Canada though it didn't mean anything in the States. Great record. Real, real soulful rendition. Unfortunately on my version, I screwed up almost all the words..." [1]

[1] Neil Young interview (Mojo magazine, 1995)

 
At 3/24/2009 04:08:00 PM, Blogger chase said...

C. AUGUST 1969: SUNSET SOUND, HOLLYWOOD, CA

Producer: Neil Young & David Briggs

Recorded:

[O] Oh Lonesome Me [(alt. mix): 1]
[O] Oh Lonesome Me [2]
[O] I Believe In You [2]
[O] Birds [3 > (4, 5)]
[X] Wonderin'
[X] Dance, Dance, Dance
[X] It Might Have Been
[X] Winterlong
[X] Look At All The Things [Whitten]

 
At 3/24/2009 04:25:00 PM, Blogger chase said...

Thrasher, could I offer a suggestion?

I think if there was a message board here on the site we could all have more fair and open discussions about all of the issues and more importantly, Neil's music. If there were forums here kind of like those on the expectingrain dylan site, people who really cared, and not just those who care to aggravate by posting anonymously or ranting could get actual discussion and threads and conversation going. I think it would be easier for all to read and access than writing back on forth over comments on news items. Of course I'm not suggesting you get rid of the comments, but for those who want to continue the discussion they could move over to the forums. You're doing a great job...thank you so much for your work.

 
At 3/24/2009 04:27:00 PM, Blogger BrotherWill said...

Chase, that's so awesome!!! I was specifically talking about the 1969 sessions at Sunset Sound when I posted earlier, " I really do wish there were a few particular tracks that ended up not showing up". We're on the same page!

Lets hope they end up as a future download for the Blu-Ray

 
At 3/25/2009 02:11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are we sure they recorded Winterlong at Sunset Sound? The Shakey book talks about those sessions in detail and lists everything Oh, Lonesome Me, I Believe In You (both on ATGR), Birds (b-side version), Everybody's Alone, Wonderin' and Look At All The Things with the last 3 being unreleased and unbooted. No mention of Winterlong, It Might Of Been or Dance, Dance, Dance FWIW.

Chris M

 
At 3/25/2009 06:26:00 PM, Blogger BrotherWill said...

I thought they had recorded "Winterlong" then as well, but I may be wrong. I want to hear "Look At All The Things"!!!

 
At 3/25/2009 06:27:00 PM, Blogger BrotherWill said...

Also, any chance someone on here could tell me why the "first pressing" of After The Gold Rush is special. I noticed on the track list that songs from ATGR were listed as coming from the first pressing. Is there a difference in mix/mastering that I'm unaware of? Or something else?

 
At 3/25/2009 10:27:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Archives Guy if you buy the Blue Ray Discs individually will you still get the mp3 download code or is that only if you buy the boxset? and does it include all the songs or only the ones on let's say the first disc I purchase? I cannot afford to buy the Blue Ray set and was planning on buying the Blue Ray discs individually but only if I get the mp3 download with them. also and most importantly how long with the option to buy the Blue Ray Individually last? hope you can answer this for me.

thanks!

 
At 5/22/2009 11:35:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

for the poor guy worried about the absence of the journey through the past film being missing from one incarnation, I say, have you ever seen the film? I am the worlds biggest neil young fan, but this is the worlds biggest loser of a movie, so don't sweat it. I had the unfortunate torture of seeing magical mystery tour, which is the equally ridiculously bad beatles equivilent of neil film. After an hour ofJTTP, the film melted in the projector, and the whole audience cheered. So for me, it is a bit of an affront that this piece of crap, no pun intended, is dumped on us at the expense of better stuff. George K, willow springs il

 
At 6/06/2009 10:29:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

how do you find the hidden tracks.The only 2 I found are in a timeline from one disc.How do I burn a cd from the blueray?MP3 is not the prefered transfer.rimos

 

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