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Friday, September 25, 2009

Comment of the Moment: So What's The Deal With The Performance Series (NYAPS)?

Recently, we posted on the upcoming release of Dreamin' Man, Neil Young Performance Series Volume #12.

As with all things Neil, much head scratchin' and teeth gnashin'.

Which brings us to the Comment of the Moment on
So What's The Deal With The Performance Series? by our good friend Anonymous:
I think that the important thing to remember is that not every single person who likes Neil's music is going to invest in the Archives.

In the example of something like Massey Hall, that was a good enough addition to his catalogue to stand in its own right and separate from the Archives box set. It gives the chance for the non-obsessives to purchase a great recording and possibly get into an artist that they may have otherwise ignored and/or previously not liked. I have no problem with paying for it twice, because I now know that it is inevitable that it will form part of the Archives. If it's important enough to be released separately, then it will certainly be deemed an important part of his audiobiography and will be in the Archives. It's common sense.

I think, in hindsight, they may regret not making it clear that previous releases were going to form part of the Volume 1 package but we have to remember that they've been feeling their way in the dark over this project to a certain extent. They've been trying to explore the capacity of a new medium and provide a groundbreaking audio/visual experience. This has been extremely successful.

I'd rather be a fan of Neil's and be in this rather exciting position, whereby we're arriving at a completely unique and original method of experiencing music (and related paraphernalia) than someone else who has a wealth of material but is resting on their laurels and letting others put out cds in a boring and orthodox fashion (as much as I love Dylan, he is guilty of this).

I don't think that there's a business model for people who won't wait until the release of Volumes 3 and 4, yet complain about buying it twice. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice. Either wait for Volume 3/4, or buy it now in advance and have all these years of enjoying it (and it really probably will be years!).

I don't think I've heard people complain about buying remastered albums (and the difference between, say, cd and blu ray is even greater than that of a remastered album)! Personally, I can't quite fathom why there is such a big furore about this.

I don't normally post on here but thought I needed to wade in! Be grateful for what we're fortunate enough to be offered!

More on the upcoming release of Dreamin' Man, Neil Young Performance Series Volume #12.

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At 9/25/2009 06:58:00 AM, Anonymous @judd6149 said...

I agree with Anonymous across the board. At this stage, I'll just stand in the riverbed and wait for Neil's waters to rise...and buy whatever floats to the surface!

Regarding the Dylan comment (and this is not in his defence)...I just don;t think he cares. If he doesn't care, he isn't really "guilty", right?

Neil cares and so do his fans...hence the success of the NYPS and the Archives. Bring on Dreaming Man...

At 9/25/2009 07:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just hope the next 4 remastered albums come out before Archives vol.2 is out.

Rancho Relaxo

At 9/25/2009 07:19:00 AM, Anonymous LRR said...

Putting the Performance Series disks into the Archives Box is an awkward proposition. Some of these things are not like the other. The PS series has no file cabinet. The PS series has no enhanced timeline. The PS Series breaks up the Archives tracklisting in an un-natural way. Note how the Topangas are broken up. The "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere" cuts are split up amongst two disks. You have 3 blistering Crazy Horse Tracks at the end of a disk comprising mainly solo things. Then Riverboat. Then More Crazy Horse on Topanga2.

All of the Performance Series disks would do well as separate releases with mass appeal. The file cabinet disks have their own appeal to the collector. The archives boxes can have slots for the PS disks.

If "Riverboat" were pulled from Volume 1, more people would have purchased and heard it. If all 3 were not included, the cost of the set would have decreased and more people would have purchased the set. It works out better aesthetically and business-wise.

Volume2 has TOO MUCH material to release with the PS disks. Volume 2should be perhaps 7 file cabinet disks (1972-1979)and 5 empty slots for the performance series.

Then Neil and Co will not have to go through the trouble of setting up a website to sell the disks individually. What a logistics nightmare THAT was. Huh?

For that matter, leave blank spaces in the Archives Box for the Original Series Blu-Rays....

At 9/25/2009 10:13:00 AM, Blogger andrea1bianco said...

The present Archives tracklist was substantially planned in the 2000.I don't think that then separate releases for LAMH and LAF were planned.The Archives were postponed for the BS Box Set release(2001)and for some Neil doubts about the format.In the 2005 the Archives release was object of an agreement between Neil and the Reprise in occasion of the new recording contract. The NYPS series were then decided for implementing the commercial value of the Archives series.
Live at Massey Hall and Live at The Fillmore have a great artistic value and I don't think that other live recordings can substitute their place.

At 9/25/2009 10:24:00 AM, Blogger Matthew Lintzenich said...

We demand so much of Neil. More than we would any other artist.

Neil releases a new album, and a week later we are clamouring for another one.

Neil gives us performance recordings, and then adds them to the archives as a freebie and we complain about receiving them twice.

But then many of us have every album 2 or 3 times over, and can't wait to buy it again in a new format.

It's incredible, this pressure we put on Neil. Most other artists release something once every few years and we accept that as par for the course, but God forbid a year goes by without a new Neil release, and we are drooling with anticipation and beating down his door about it.

It's quite fascinating, the crazed psychology of the Neil Young fan.

We are hard-core.

I can't wait for Archives vol. 3, personally. Looking forward to hearing all that weird stuff that got shelved in the 80's.

And Toast of course.

And NYPS #s 3 - 400. All of which I expect to see within a month. lol

At 9/25/2009 11:08:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...Neil gives us performance recordings, and then adds them to the archives as a freebie and we complain about receiving them twice....." - matt

do you really believe this hogwash? These are not gifts, not freebies....we pay for them, plain and simple.

Please, show me a model where we actually get these for FREE.

Please don't tell me you truly believe this?

- anon

At 9/25/2009 12:29:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


There should be no more complaints about the NYAPS after this!???..

and to @judd6149 about Dylan.. yeah he don't give a fuck. He's Dylan! He shouldn't have to..

imagine having to not only update your NYA (which is a good thing) but also having to do the same for BDA.. wow i would be hungry and homeless.. but a very happy man:)


At 9/25/2009 04:04:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

On a scale of 1 to 10, i give the archives a 6.

bluRay format is challenging to navigate, plus lack of BR-Live is disappointing.

I listen to the MP3's MUCH more than i put in the BR.

sad but true.

Color me sad.

At 9/25/2009 07:26:00 PM, Anonymous Joe In T.O. said...

LRR wrote:

"The PS Series breaks up the Archives tracklisting in an un-natural way. Note how the Topangas are broken up. The "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere" cuts are split up amongst two disks. You have 3 blistering Crazy Horse Tracks at the end of a disk comprising mainly solo things. Then Riverboat. Then More Crazy Horse on Topanga2."

While I can certainly see your point about breaking up the Crazy Horse tracks, they are, technically, in the right spot. Chronologically, the Riverboat shows took place after the three recordings at the end of Topanga 1...

BUT: I just rewatched the ARCHIVES trailer on SUGAR MOUNTAIN and when they showed the individual disc covers, Topanga 1 was only dated "1968" and not "1968-1969" as the released version is. So maybe the Crazy Horse tracks were together at one point...


At 9/25/2009 07:34:00 PM, Anonymous punkdavid said...

I read LRR's post before seeing who had written it, and I was like, "Wow, I agree with every single thing in that assessment."

No wonder.


At 9/25/2009 07:57:00 PM, Anonymous Joe In T.O. said...

Oh yeah, I should have said that I agree with LRR 100% also. OK, 90% because of that one small correction I made. But I mostly brought it up to point out the different Tpanga 1 cover in the trailer...


At 9/25/2009 08:57:00 PM, Blogger Mick said...

everything is in chronological order. I think it is interesting to hear things in the order they were done. To compare what he was playing live , to what is being done in studios around the same time. Even more interesting once CSNY kicks off and he's recording ATGR material.

At 9/25/2009 10:31:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dylan gave his fans real treats and unreleased material with the Bootleg far, Neil's Archives, strictly from a music perspective, is mostly regurgitated goo.

Bootleg Series 1, Archives 0.

....but that's just me.

At 9/25/2009 11:00:00 PM, Anonymous LRR said...

I feel so validated here! At least 95%worthy!

So, if NYAPS00 were actually a part of the Archives, we would have a "Topanga1.5" disk with only 3 songs on it in between Canterbury and Riverboat. I know I'm taking the argument to the extreme.....

Anyway...this is all small fries....Good things to come...

At 9/26/2009 07:48:00 AM, Anonymous Joe In T.O. said...

@LRR: I'm pretty sure NYAPS00 was never intended to be an "official" part of THE ARCHIVES. Hence the presence of two of its tracks on Topanga 1. There is no such duplication with any other NYAPS disc. Of course, this proves your original point that NYAPS discs can and should be a separate thing. As far as most of us remember, this was the original plan anyway. I'm not sure what changed it (Blu-Ray because there were no NYAPS BR releases yet?). But for all the reasons you said above, it's the best plan. It would maximize sales and exposure for the NYAPS discs. And it would be real easy to leave "slots" in THE ARCHIVES for them as originally promised because "slots" just means extra space in the disc box. And who wouldn't want that? I hope they're reconsidering the approach for VOLUME 2. Of course, I'll be buying everything, even if it means getting NYAPS discs twice. I just hope they're not counting on that...

As for the album remasters, I really hope that when the Blu-ray versions are released they aren't in jewel cases like the CDs were. I'm hoping for cardboard jackets that match the rest of the ARCHIVES discs so I can put them in the stash box...

Lovin' THE ARCHIVES and remasters!...


At 9/26/2009 08:23:00 AM, Anonymous Thos said...

I love this site!

I seem to remember that when the NYA boxset came out everyone was complaining about the cardboard sleeves which scatched the disks and oozed glue onto them - Now we want cardboard sleeves instead of plastic ones! Matt Lintzenich is right, we're so hard to please we're practically rabid!


At 9/26/2009 08:24:00 AM, Anonymous Thos said...

PS, sorry if I'm being thick but what does LRR stand for? (if anything)

At 9/26/2009 08:44:00 AM, Anonymous Joe In T.O. said...

@Thos: It's always dangerous to paint everyone with the same brush with statements like "EVERYONE was complaining" and "WE want cardboard sleeves". I believe you were referring to my Comment above. I, like a lot of ARCHIVES buyers, never complained about the cardboard sleeves and have had no problems with them. I, possibly alone, would be happy to have them on the Blu-ray remasters. It's personal preference, not rabidity. If you think everyone that reads and posts on this site or Neil Young fans in general share some sort of collective brain, perhaps you should go back and read some of the other Comments on some of the other Posts on this site. You'll be educated about the differences of opinion that exist and possibly even occasionally entertained...


At 9/26/2009 11:34:00 AM, Blogger Mick said...

The bootleg series is different to the archives. The bootleg series was meant to be rare , unreleased. The archives was always going to include prev released material.

At 9/26/2009 05:40:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

regardless, i will take the Bootleg Series over the Archives any day of the week.

What happened to BluRay Live, neil?

You're acting more and more like a capitalist slob each and every day.

At 9/26/2009 07:20:00 PM, Anonymous Thos said...

@ Joe in TO: I am well aware of the differences in opinion on this site - that's half the reason I love it, for the healthy debate!

I just feel sorry for Archives Guy trying to work out what to do next with us lot never being in agreement about even the most simple of issues...

Still, massive respect to Neil Young and his team for actually trying - I can't think of any other band or artist who have made the effort we've seen here on these very pages, and I guess we have Thrasher to thank for that too.

Cheers, Thos.

At 9/27/2009 12:09:00 AM, Anonymous LRR said...

LRR=Lone Red Rider.

I just want Neil to keep doing what he wants to do. I'm only the peanut gallery.


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