So What Might We Find on The Neil Young's Online Archives ... Someday?
On Friday, news came along that Neil Young Announces Online Archive: "Opening Soon".
This digital archives will contain Young's entire catalog with "unreleased albums" and be made available via a new high-definition streaming service called Xstream Music.
The vast majority of fan comments have been directed at various physical distribution formats -- such as BluRay, CDs or vinyl. Sadly, relatively little has been said about the underlying material itself -- the vast trove of tracks which we eagerly await to hear in a pristine sound.
A comment on Comment of the Moment: Neil Young Announces Online Archive: "Opening Soon" by Old Black:
I think the saddest thing here is that all of these postings, including mine, should have been celebrating the release of all of this wonderful music, debating what we're each looking forward to, just a joyous stream of posts full of anticipation, excitement & good will, as I said before this is our holy grail, & yet the overwhelming emphasis has been on formats, failed ventures, sound quality etc etc, & I think Neil should take note. Not that he will of course. I'm with Scotsman on sound quality, & really, is Neil these days going to be a reliable judge of sound quality? Would you take the word of an old man whose hearing would have naturally deteriorated due to age who has also spent a large part of his life on stage with Crazy Horse!? As I said before, I would like a physical release, & I think it's a bit hypocritical of Neil to deny us this given how famous he is for collecting & acquiring possessions, cars, guitars etc etc.Old Black's comment resonates with us and we agree.
So What Might We Find on Neil Young's Online Archives ... Someday?
Here's what Syscrusher suggests on Steve Hoffman Forum on Neil Young's Archives:
00 - Canterbury House 1968
01 - Riverboat 1969
1.5 - Canterbury House 1969
02 - Fillmore East 1970
02.5 - Cellar Door 1970
03 - Massey Hall 1971
04 - Rainbow 1973
05 - Bottom Line 1974
06 - Ranch Romance 1975
06.5 - Alex's 1975/76
07 - Boarding House 1978
08 - Catalyst 1984
09 - A Treasure 1985
10 - Rusted Garage 1986
11 - Bluenote Cafe 1988
11 .5 - Jones Beach 1988
12 - Dreamin' Man 1992
13 - w Pearl Jam 1995
14 - Crazy Horse OPL 1996
15 - solo 1999
Now that's a pretty astonishing vault dream you got there Syscrusher.
As previously noted, we would just like to know that the music is out there to be heard, released at long last from the vaults for all to enjoy and appreciate.
But since you mentioned it ... how about the unreleased album Oceanside/Countryside? Odeon/Budokan? Chrome Dreams I? Boarding House 1978? Santa Cruz w/The Ducks 1977 ?
But in the meantime, we're just happy to know that we'll be listening to Neil Young's "Hitchhiker" album on September 8 and watching Neil end his performance sabbatical on September 16!
And for that, we are most grateful.
Labels: archives, neil young
by thrasher@PermaLink: 8/07/2017 07:08:00 PM
46 comments
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46 Comments:
"TOAST" - w/ Crazy horse?
Time Fades Away 2
Tonight's The Night (alternate)
Dume
Chrome Dreams
Oceanside/Countryside
Island In The Sun
Old Ways
Crazy horse sessions 1984 (maybe)
Meadow Dusk
Times Square
Crazy Horse sessions 1995
Silver and Gold solo
Toast
Road Rock Vol. 2
Twisted Road/Le Noise solo acoustic
Crazy horse sessions 2010
Alchemy
Kahuna: The best available information is that Meadow Dusk doesn't actually exist, it was a concept that was aborted when Neil was dropped by Geffen.
And Times Square is already available in full, with the exception of Box Car (the studio take of which is out there on bootleg in good quality). Nice ideas otherwise, though!
"Homegrown" is probably the Holy Grail of the lost albums, not least because we have heard so little of it via other projects. I would love for it to be released imminently, though I suspect it will be one of the last things to escape the vault (probably in 2074).
Scotsman.
I remember, way back perhaps in the previous century, a teaser page on Neil's Garage for the Archives that had the first page of a log of existing recordings, beginning with Aurora and The Sultan. If the new Timeline feature on the site has chronological info (along the lines of Mark Lewisohn's Beatles Recording Sessions, but not necessarily as in depth) I'd be thrilled. How I would get to hear such things hasn't even begun to formulate in my brain. If it's streaming for free, I'm not going to complain about sound quality.
I think Old Black hits the nail on the head.
It's a common theme in the "Pono era": the music almost seems to be playing second fiddle to the technology that accompanies it, rather than vice versa.
Since when did enjoying music become so complicated? As Nassim Taleb said: "Technology is at its best when it is invisible".
When asked by an interviewer whether A Letter Home really sounded better in high-resolution, Neil Young had a great answer: "it is such a good album it sounds great whatever you play it on!". My question is: If this applies to an album as lo-fi as A Letter Home, does it not apply to all his other great albums, as well?
Scotsman.
Other possible additions:
* Rolling Zuma/N. California Bar Tour December 1975
* The Echos Live at the Princeton Landing March 1996
Love Neil and always will but I was an investor in Pono. I understood the risk but I have to say the communication to investors has been terrible. The worst I have ever seen. Wondering if Pono investors will be rolled into the new venture to have a shot at making our money back.
Re: Homegrown
Do you think we'll actually get what 30 year old Neil Young envisioned for this album or 70 year old Neil Young. I mean a lot has changed in 40 years, he might not like his original track list, it was a dark period for him as well.
He recorded a lot of songs during this period so he's got a lot of choice, all of them wouldn't have been on the album.
Wasn't Bluenote Cafe a different concept in 1988 than it was when it eventually came out in 2015 or whenever it was.
We'll probably get a whole "disc" of tracks from the Homegrown sessions in chronological order or something.
Can't wait to see this website up and running though.
Actually I forgot to put Homegrown on my list. Just noticed that. Oops
Looking forward to it.
I dont mind a web achieve.... pay a small fee... and down load and save what you want play... beats the freight and postage cost.
Thanks for digging up my list Thrasher, a fun game to play.
K. Sunset I have a list like yours but a little. It different.
Time Fades Away II
Original Tonight's The Night
Homegrown
Hitchhiker
Dume
Early Daze
My Old Neighbourhood
Ranch Romance
Chrome Dreams
Odeon/Budokan
Oceanside/Countryside
Island In The Sun
Old Ways I
Old Ways III
Meadow Dusk
Times Square
Solo Silver And Gold
Toast
Syscrusher:
What is your definition of "Ranch Romance"? I'm generally unfamilar with this title and where it comes from. I think I've seen it associated with the 1975/1976 bar tour before now, but these gigs almost certainly weren't recorded, not professionally.
Likewise, Meadow Dusk doesn't actually exist, it was a conceptual idea that never made it past the planning stage, abandoned immediately when Neil was dropped by Geffen. There may be some archival documents from the same time period, but I wouldn't expect much/any actual music.
The title "My Old Neighbourhood" originally comes from a 1975 interview; it was essentially a "placeholder" name for what would soon become Zuma, before the finalised tracklist (and Dume should cover the songs missing from the 1975 release).
A lot of the sessions and albums from this period sort of blur together. Similar to Chrome Dreams essentially being a blueprint running order for what would eventually become American Stars n' Bars. And it's the same sort of thing with Times Square, all but one song of which is already contained within Freedom and the Eldorado EP. If I remember correctly, there is a very good quality version of the one unreleased master (Box Car) on the "Rarities" bootleg, for anyone who wants to build their own copy in the meantime.
My guess (and this time it is only a guess) is that the raw David Briggs original version of Tonight's The Night is lost forever. Hopefully I will be proved very wrong on that one. Or at very least, they will have been able to re-assemble a good approximation of it.
It will be interesting to find out how much of Toast actually exists, as well. Certainly, contemporary interviews with the band members state that the only song they managed to finish was Goin' Home, which itself sounds decidely unfinished to me (going by the stuck-in-first-gear version from Toast featured on Are You Passionate). I wonder how much of this record exists only in Neil's mind, a "ghost album"; "the one that got away". Regardless, it will be very intersting to hear when/if it finally is released.
Scotsman.
Kahuna: Very good point about Homegrown and Bluenote Cafe.
I suspect that Bluenote Cafe as released in 2015 is essentially very similar to the 1988 version, rearranged into chronological order and expanded with numerous extra tracks from the vaults. The Jones Beach soundboard of Crime In The City is almost certainly a modern addition, for instance. Bluenote Cafe is one of my favourite live albums, though I think the decision to go for a fairly strict chronological order was perhaps a mistake. The middle section of disc one drags a bit, in particular, which could have been avoided with a tweaked running order.
Will he go for the same revisionist approach with Homegrown? As you say, there were a lot of songs recorded at those sessions, and it's unlikely all of them made it on to the finished record. So I too think it's very possible Neil will choose to go with an expanded/rearranged version, ala Bluenote Cafe. Either way, as with that record, it woukd be nice to know what the original tracklist was, if only out of curiosity!
Scotsman.
There is a tracklist for the original 1988 Bluenote Cafe (AKA: This S*#* Don't Sell" or "This Notes For You, Too") at the website below:
http://bobvogt.com/high_bias/the_bluenotes.htm
It remains unclear whether this tracklist was the "final" running order from 1988, a random list of songs being worked on, or a snapshot of a work in progress.
Scotsman.
If finally we can get a list of all the songs in the Archives with the recording dates on this new website, we'll have more accurate guesses about the possible albums in can.
So Tired
A physical product is still a real possibility as all of the archive release series have been released on CD and vinyl. So I'm still hopeful that for those of us who prefer a physical product will still be honored.
I'm not one who listens to music on my computer, as I have a very nice stereo system with a tube CD player, a great turntable and Polk Audio tower speakers. My computer speakers sound like crap, and I'm not willing to spend money on better ones when I've already invested in my home system.
I'll turn 61 in September and I've got my music starting with 45's, vinyl albums, 8 tracks, cassettes, betamax, VHS, DVD, and because of Archive Vol. One.... Blu Ray. If streaming is going to be the only alternative then I will be left behind. I'm not convinced this will be the case, but if so... then count me out.
Peace.
..... oh..... I forgot CD's
As Zuma is my favourite Neil Young & Crazy Horse album (and one of my favourite albums of anyone) I'm looking forward to hearing Dume.
What would you guys think would be on it. I'm thinking;
Country Home
River Of Pride (White Line)
Born To Run
Like A Hurricane
Homegrown
Look Out For My Love
Lotta Love
Ride My Llama
Sedan Delivery
Bite The Bullet (?)
Let It Shine (?)
Too Far Gone (?)
According to Special Deluxe, "Changing Highways" is from that era, maybe not those sessions. If only we had a timeline...
I think Changing Highways is the first ever Crazy Horse recording with Poncho. Recorded at Chess studios late November 1974. Could be included in Dume but I would guess not.
Scotsman, I'm aware of everything you mentioned about the "unreleased" albums. It is just a list of titles of possible albums he could decide to reconstruct. And I wouldn't put anything paste him.
As for Ranch Romance, im not sure if it exists or not but live or in studio, it would include late '75 Crazy Horse tunes including the ones written by Poncho.
I think he could also have possibly recoded for the Zuma/Dume sessions:
Pocahontas
Hitchhiker
Little Wing
All have been played electric and date from the period, and Pocahontas was actually named by Neil as being on the My Old Neighbourhood album. He said the album was about the Aztecs and the Incas and time traveling, so I figure he must've been thinking of including more than just Cortez on the album for him to describe it that way.
Neil writes in WHP that he called for the Horse to record at Point Dume once he had written Cortez and Hitchhiker, and that they also did Powderfinger among the songs not released on Zuma. He also says he didn't write Hurricane until late November 75, which was after Zuma's release, and according to "Shakey," Country Home was written for the December 75 California bar tour, Look Out for My Love was first recorded at the ranch in early 76 and Lotta Love was written in Florida on his boat in 77.
Lotta Love was recorded Nov.-Dec.1975 and December 1976.It was frequently played during the 1976 tour with Crazy Horse. Nicolette Larson remembered incorrectly.
So Tired
It seems to me quite clear reading neil's message that in the future unreleased material will be also on cd and vinyl and will be available at the same time as high definition streaming on the internet site. I think that what was gone forever is the idea of archives volumes, and certainly we cannot expect something like the site opening giving us the 70s unreleased material from day 1 ! We're still a long way from Homegrown!
Maybe a bit of a generous thing from neil would have been to give away with physical purchasing of Hitchhiker a sticker with a code that grants free access for a month to the site. I'm a dreamin' Man!
I will certainly be spending tons of hours reading informations on the site about everything neil has Recorded. It will be fun but frustrating at the same time because we all know it will still take years from getting to just reading about unreleased things to arrive at the day when we can actually listen to them.
Syscrusher: I know that you are aware of what I was writing about. However, there are other readers of this blog. Some of whom may not be aware of what Meadow Dusk and My Old Neighbourhood are (or in Meadow Dusk's case, what it isn't).
Neil could make a 2017 Meadow Dusk, but this would not be the same as an Archival release: it would be a new album. You can't reconstruct what didn't exist in the first place.
Thanks for the details on Ranch Romance. This is one I am not familiar with. Where did you get the title from?
Scotsman.
The way Neil writes about Dume, it sounds like a compilation of Zuma songs with other songs from the same time period. In the same way that the individual discs of Archives Vol 1 combine released tracks with previously unreleased ones.
In addition to the Zuma songs, we know these were recorded/attempted:
Powderfinger
Sedan Delivery
Born To Run
Ride My Llama
White Line
An early unfinished version of Pocahontas could conceivably be on there. Hitchhiker? I don't think so. It is highly unlikely a 1975 electric version exists.
Scotsman.
Where do you get your information about Meadow Dusk Scotsman? If you read the excerpt in Shakey it sure sounds like they worked on something.
As we so often say, Neil fans (& TW readers) are some of the most astute & knowledgeable music lovers in the world and we're honored to have all of you out there as a regular readers. We love all of you.
Amazing how much music is still locked away in the vaults yearning to breath free.
One can only hope that Neil allows some big floodgate release to help Bridge the gap. It's been since 2009 that Vol #1 was released so there quite a backlog here to catch up on.
Bring it on Neil!
Stream baby stream ... or I'm just a Streamin' Man... (apologies)
Syscrusher: McDonough's book describes Meadow Dusk as an album that was started (planned) but cancelled ("ground to a halt") before it was finished. Neil's comments in the book says it was "just a concept", and the way he describes it enforces the idea that it was "going to be" something, rather than something that "actually was".
Like I said previously, I imagine there will be some record of this period in the Archives, but very little (if any) finished music. He could of course pick up where he left off, finish it 30 years later, but that would cease to be a historical Archives project.
The period of time between Meadow Dusk being conceived and then cancelled must also have been extremely short. Neil toured extensively through 1987 with Crazy Horse (with work being done on the Life album during tour breaks). As you know, towards the end of the tour he began to introduced a few blues songs into the live set. The Crazy Tour concluded at the beginning of September. Just two months later, Neil began his next club tour with the Bluenotes, expanding on the Blues style he experimented with on the last tour.
Within those two months, Meadow Dusk had been planned and then cancelled. Also in the same time period, he was dropped by his record company, began negotiations to rejoin Reprise, formed the Bluenotes, booked a club tour, began assembling songs for the new band, quickly taught them the songs and then resumed touring in early November.
Scotsman.
Neil has put out an amazing volume of quality songs, but the notion that there is a treasure trove of really good unreleased Neil songs out there is ... a myth. This was borne out by Archives I. Only a very small handful of truly new and truly good songs. The reality is that 99% of Neil's quality songwriting output has already been released. We may enjoy new variations of the old songs (either studio or live), but the really good stuff is already known to us.
I hope I am wrong.
-CK Junior
@Andrea: Thanks for the correction on Lotta Love (brain cramp on my part), but that still puts it past the Dume timeframe.
@Scotsman: Neil writes in WHP, "When I wrote Cortez the Killer and Hitchhiker, I called for the Horse to come and record (at Point Dume)." So why do you consider it "highly unlikely" that the latter was recorded?
Babbo: The rhythmic structure of the song doesn't fit well to a band arrangement. In much the same way that it's hard to imagine "Goin' Back" in a Crazy Horse arrangement. It's a complex song designed not be constrained by a steady drum beat. There's a reason that in 35 years, he's only ever played it solo in concert, whether on acoustic or electric guitar.
Also, listen to the way the 1976 version trails off at the end. He doesn't know how to finish it (it's a great take, regardless). Decades later, Neil would comment that the reason the recording wasn't released back then because it was "unfinished". If he attempted to record it in 1975, I think he would probably have worked out how to end it before trying again a year later (a simple reprise of the opening "when I was a Hitchhiker..." verse turned out to be the perfect ending, in 1992).
Other than Neil's ambiguous comment above, I don't think there has ever been any indication that the Horse successfully recorded Hitchhiker. And he doesn't actually explicitly say they even tried to record it, far less were successful in doing so. I'm not ruling anything out, and it's possible they at least attempted it, but I'd be surprised if this one actually exists in a complete take, if at all.
Scotsman.
That is a great chronology of the time period surrounding Meadow Dusk Scotsman! It's just for me "it's just a concept thing" doesn't meant that it was only an idea and nothing else. It means the album was conceptual kind of album.
I mean it's possible he only sketched the idea out on paper. And to go as far as having song titles and album covers and overdubs sketched out. But I still feel like he would've recorded something at least.
That's that point, your last sentence. . We're talking about things that might surprise us. Possibilities. Things that we don't know exist or not. We all know what definitely does exist. But what about the things we haven't heard about. I don't know for sure that nothing exists of Meadow Dusk, and I also don't know that Crazy Horse didn't lay down a bunch of tunes that we've only ever heard acoustic. Anyway, I'm excited to find out as we all are cause with Neil there's more to the picture than meets the eye.
Niel on line. The more i think about the more i like it... if it was like Netflix app and you could login play or Cast then wow it be awesome. The number of times ive been at mates and gone gee wish we had a NY show or 2 or a new/old album to play. This way all id need to do login to Channel Neil and get set for a Rust Feast anytime almost any where.....
Unfortunately, listening to anything Neil Young says these days, is like listening to _____ (insert name) Washington D.C. politician. His words are empty and meaningless. He has broken his promise so many times on this whole decades old archives issue, that I have simply given up on the possibility of them actually being released. Yes he owns the music but it is his fans that have allowed him to live in luxury since the 60's. RIP the old Neil Young I used to know and love.
@ CK Junior - we hope you're wrong also ... and we think you are -- but in a good way.
@ Paul - This is your 7th comment today posted on TW of this type.
Clearly, you are troubled and angry and we wish you the peace that comes with a calm mind. We gently suggest rather than venting here about how Neil has done you wrong, that you channel this negative energy into something more productive and positive.
There are a lot of great insights to consider during a time of healing and release.
Before we can heal and release, we need to become aware. Please don't be dismayed or let anger bring you down. Remember, this is an opportunity to grow and transmute the "negative" into the positive. Change and evolution happens through growth.
It takes time to process and digest what is happening, but in the act of embracing it, we use our creative and healing powers to benefit ourselves and others. The healing that comes from a bitter practice ensures a sweet mind and heart later.
wishing you all of the best on your journey, while the music sets your heart free,
namaste
@ Thrasher Wheat. Thanks but I don't need your new age mystic advice. I am a realist and am simply commenting my own opinion, like yours and everyone else. That is my right, correct? I will just move on from here and remove this site from my bookmarks. I don't need to be part of a cult that refuses to see the truth that is right before it's eyes. Take care of yourself, and please make sure your own life is in order, don't worry about me, I am doing just fine! I'm not one of the throng who bragged on the beauty of the Emperors new cloths like yourself, I am the one who called it like it was, and said he was naked! Take care :)
Gonna miss your comments, Paul.
Rolling Stone on lost Neil Young albums...
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/15-archival-neil-young-albums-wed-like-to-hear-w500552/chrome-dreams-1977-w500561
I hope Berlin 82' is in there somehow.
Homegrown is by far the most coveted and therefore the most desired of all the unreleased albums. Most are skeptical as to whether Neil will stick to the original planned album or update it to suit how he feels these days. My thoughts are that Neil is a stickler for historical accuracy. When he is ready, he will present that album as it was intended in 1975 before the playback of Tonight's The Night led to a change of mind. Regarding other material recorded during the time, expect to see those tracks appear on the timeline and file cabinet as standalone recordings. As with Archives Vol. 1, there were some tracks that were left on the cutting room floor during sessions for an album and they made it to the Archives. Just because it didn't make the cut for the album didn't mean it remained unreleased forever. Also of note, Neil is clearly not opposed to including tracks that made it to later albums as can be seen with Hitchhiker. Captain Kennedy is an example here, found on both Hitchhiker and Hawks And Doves. When it comes to the archives online, as the material is made available and the information as well, purchase of the newly released recordings could lead to fans purchasing just those recordings they don't already have and compiling the lost albums with provided information. However, knowing Neil's true fans, we will buy the albums as they come out.
Regarding Meadow Dusk, it seems that this was along the same lines as the 1969-1970 concept that Neil had for Oh Lonesome Me, so far that he had designed an mock up of a proposed album cover and had two variations of a potential track listing. The proposed cover and track listings can be seen in the documents for Oh Lonesome Me on the Archives Online. Neil may have recorded material but the overall project never materialized or was left incomplete (ie only some of the material was recorded). However, the Oh Lonesome Me project could manifest itself as the Early Crazy Horse album that is showing up in the timeline for the period, although it is more likely the idea was scrapped when Neil joined with CSN and then further developed the After The Gold Rush concept.
Regarding Neil's use of unfinished recordings, I don't think it would be impossible for him to have attempted Hitchhiker with Crazy Horse in 1975 for Dume, even if it was unfinished. Crazy Horse was about a raw energy, not a polished product. A prime example is the abrupt ending on Going Home, clearly an unfinished (or perhaps deliberate) ending.
As for other unreleased material, it would be nice to see placeholder info cards for many of the unreleased songs. I can see the desire to hold back the recordings until the respective project is ready for release but the information cards would at least show what Neil recorded. If anything, this would contribute to the further speculation as to what songs would make the cut on the unreleased albums, furthering the discussions.
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