O Canada! Neil Young's Tar Sands Oil Comments Go Viral
Near Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
(Click photo to enlarge)
Yesterday, we had the distinct pleasure and honor to listen to Neil Young eloquently speak of the evils of Canadian Tar Sands oil extraction and the wonders of clean, renewable fuels.
During Young's remarks, he said: “The fact is, Fort McMurray looks like Hiroshima. Fort McMurray is a wasteland."
The comments have sparked a fair amount of outrage and support.
(Click photo to enlarge)
350.org's Bill McKibben got it right from the environmental side:
Heart of green: Canada's Neil Young calls tarsands a lethal wasteland (and he's right) http://t.co/sFGyJb9cG7
— Bill McKibben (@billmckibben) September 10, 2013
Keep on rockin' in the [fossil] free world. - Neil Young, on the Alberta Tar Sands http://t.co/m9b9fOprX2 #nokxl
— Keith Stewart (@climatekeith) September 10, 2013
Sad that media only cares when Neil Young comments on the disaster that is the tar sands + not when Indigenous people who live there speak
— Erin Tomkins (@tom_e_kins) September 10, 2013
But across Canada, Young's comments have not been well received.
The video coverage that we posted on Thrasher's Wheat yesterday has been picked up by numerous publications and gone "viral". (Or at least what we consider viral for our little blog.)
For us, many of the negative comments come across as unhinged rants without basis of fact or reason. Just pure raw emotion of wounded pride and failure to see what the world clearly sees: That indeed the Canadian Tar Sands Oil Fields do look truly like devastated landscapes. Take a look for yourself if you disagree.
Well, I hope @neilyoung will remember, an Alberta man don't need him around anyhow. http://t.co/SHKSE3QwtD
— John R. Bolton (@johnrbolton1) September 10, 2013
Interested to see what the knee-jerk patriot, petrol-booster, FN-hating, Molson-swilling Tar Sand apologists have to say about Neil Young.
— Lee Reed (@freeleereed) September 10, 2013
http://t.co/1BS5G8nbsf Neil can say what he wants about Fort Mac, but Hiroshima is one of the most beautiful cities I've seen #notawasteland
— William Loewen (@wjloewen) September 11, 2013
Many of the negative comments seem to entirely misinterpret the quote. When people refer to "Hiroshima" in this context they are referring to 1945 when the atomic bomb was dropped. Not how Hiroshima was before and not how it looks now. He used a symbolic metaphor, people. Similarly, Young is referring to the outskirts of Fort McMurray and not downtown.
Melissa Blake, the mayor of the Regional Municipality of Wood Buffalo, said she takes no issue with people who have environmental interests, but Mr. Young’s comments are “blatantly false” and she wished there was “more rationality” to his statements, The Globe and Mail’s Kelly Cryderman reports.
"When people say it's a wasteland, it really and truly isn't," Ms. Blake said. "When it comes to the community of Fort McMurray, you're overwhelmed frankly by the beauty of it. You've got an incredible boreal environment that's all around you. You proceed further north into the oil sands and inevitably, there's mining operations that will draw your attention because they take up large chunks of land."
One perspective that we don't entirely agree with -- but is sincere in approach -- is this essay on Fort Mac Philosopher: When Neil Young & Daryl Hannah Came to Town:
The other bit of Neil's message I take some umbrage with is his anti-Keystone XL stance. It seems a tad hypocritical to use the guns of government to cut people off from energy they want and force them to use OPEC conflict oil. Nobody is cutting Neil off from all the energy he's using and forcing him to burn bitumen, why would he do that to people who can't afford other sources of energy or who don't want to use bloody OPEC oil? In the same vein I don't want government pointing guns at land owners to force Keystone through their land. I just wish people would learn how to peacefully negotiate without constantly appealing to government to pull out guns on their behalf.
So Neil if you're reading this Keep on Rockin In The Free World! I dig your message of clean energy and I can't wait for affordable cleaner energy, one day if we extract enough oil and generate enough wealth like you we will be able to create a cleaner world and even be able to extend the lives of our sons and daughters and move on to a better energy source. If you would've looked a bit closer at the people in this community developing this resource you'd have found people of kindred spirit, we are concerned about the environment and about the health of those that live around the oil sands...this is where our children live. We want to leave this world a better place like you do and we have the energy to do just that. I challenge you to find a community of oil producers anywhere else in this world that more closely aligns with your values of stewardship and respect for this Earth and it's people. Not only do we not stone people to death, we don't even use plastic grocery bags.
A comment by jackie:
I see a whole bunch of people who are afraid to see the alternatives that we can begin to utilize that does not destroy the environment or has very little impact.“Neil Young is speaking for all of us fighting to stop the Keystone XL,” Jane Kleeb, Executive Director of Bold Nebraska, a coalition of landowners and others opposed to the $5.3-billion Keystone XL pipeline, told the Globe and Mail. “When you see the pollution already caused by the reckless expansion of tar sands, you only have one choice and that is to act.”
The fact is between all the oils spills that have happened recently that have destroyed our water, which impacts all life and the tar sands, uranium mining and proposed dumping. We can live without oil but we cannot live without water, plant life and animals,insects, everything is connected and is vital for all life.
Stop believing the government and these big corporations care anything about life or about you, or Canada. If they did they would not have found every way they can to silence those who are the experts and I'm not talking about those that are "paid".
Stop being afraid and start realizing that we have the ability to provide energy, that we can reduce the demand for oil and we can do it now, get up and demand change for the protection of all life in Canada.
From Neil Young's Lincvolt - Repowering the American Dream - Blog:
In Canada, where the dirtiest oil on the planet is extracted from the Alberta Tar sands at an immeasurable human cost to the First Nations people, and disease statistics reflect 30% increase in some fatal diseases, there is no freedom to choose an alternative to gasoline at the pump.Get the full story on Neil Young's Lincvolt - Repowering the American Dream - Blog
This is un-Canadian.
As a proud Canadian, I cannot let this go by without a fight. Canadians deserve Freedom to Choose the Fuel they use. Canadians should have a fuel choice at the pump that considers Future Generations. Canadians should have the freedom to express themselves through the choices they make, not have those choices made for them by a government that is too close to industry and over concerned with money and petro dollar value. We do not have to be spoon fed by the Big Oil Companies. Stand with me for Future Generations and Bring Light to the conditions In Canada as we move forward on this mission.
“@MikeHudema: @NeilYoung, Canadian rock icon, weighs in on the #tarsands debate: http://t.co/t2iAFU06ub #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/eEY7eEQ2If”
— global-consciousness (@conscious4now) September 10, 2013
Once again. it seems that the The Inconvenient Truth of Greendale really upsets some folks.
Labels: lincvolt, neil young, oil
by thrasher@PermaLink: 9/10/2013 06:37:00 PM
19 comments
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19 Comments:
... I totally agree with you Old Black. Neil really needs to do some research before commenting on something he knows very little about. The strip mining of the oil sands is just a fraction of this play and it all has to be reclaimed by the oil companies (large swaths of land have been reclaimed). The rest is drilled which leaves a very small footprint. Yes, the natives do get a piece of the oil sands action in terms of compensation and jobs which most love very much. There are always natives that do not desire to work and would rather get a hand out, they can play off of Neil Young and James Cameron for that.
We all have to understand that this is just part of Neil's Shtick, which is, playing off people's emotions and making piles of money doing it. Remember Ohio, Southern Man, Let's Roll etc? We also have to understand that Neil makes piles and piles of $$$$ by burning fossil fuel to sell his Junk to the world. Those Planes, Buses and Trucks run on water, dontcha know? Oh ya, forgot the car collection, multiple mansions and huge ranch operation. Oh, ya, the immense amount of coal generated electricity that it takes to pull off one of those Neil Young shows and run his private studio.
Neil would rather burn our food rather than distribute it to third world countries. Neil seems to think that everyone lives like him (or James Cameron), spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a hobby creating a concept car that will never be productized. Keep in mind that Neil does not work on these cars, he has people that will donate time/material because he is, well, Neil. The majority of the us are spending the weekend working on our fossil fed family cars to get us to work and the kids to school the next week so we can makes ends meet.
Do you think there is an album in the works about the oil sands? Do you think Neil will donate all the proceeds to help the dying natives in northern Alberta? Do you think Neil may relocate those natives to his gated property so they could be safe and under his wing rather than that Boogey Man Stephen Harper? Why would he not? He cannot stand around and just watch them die. Or can he?
To Neil's credit I feel he has been involved in some worthwhile causes such as Bridge Benefit (which I have attended) and Farm Aid which enhance the lives of people. I just ask that Neil do some real fact finding before throwing something against the wall that could destroy the livelihoods of good people. The last I heard we are in a period of global cooling and the sea ice in the arctic has rebounded substantially. Don't believe all you hear from the environmentalists, Neil is not the only one who makes $$$$ off of people's emotions.
But, hey hey my my, throwing Sh@#t against the wall to see what sticks is part of Neil's Shtick.
Thanks Jason.
Not sure about Old Black ref so maybe you're in the wrong thread?
Or James Cameron?
You have lots of questions but no answers it seems.
Maybe this will help - The true cost of oil: Garth Lenz @ TEDxVictoria - YouTube
peace
Ah..... Here we go again , a sanctimonious millionare jet settin rock star , preachin to the workin class .
Who the hell do you think is buyin that oil ..... Yankee Boy !
Point your finger and shame @ Canada ..... the reflection in the still waters knows where to lay the blame .
Shame on you Shakey !
Northern Man don't need you around anyhow .
Long Live our Gracious Queen !
Thrasher,
Yes, I posted on te wrong thread. I was responding to Old Black who said.....
I love Neil Young - along with John Lennon, he has been my hero for many years. But with regard to Fort McMurray and the First Nations in the Wood Buffalo area - he is full of shit in a big, big way. What a disappointment for a guy a really admire to say such bullshit. I suspect he may never have been to Fort Mac.
I am up in Fort Mac many times a year (for many years). Yes, the oil sand mines are giant, big holes, as are the tailing basins (yogurt-filled lakes). But nobody is dying of cancer because of the oil sand extraction (i.e. no more so than all fossil fuel exposure world wide). And this is important - the First Nations have not been overly opposed to oil sand extraction - especially compared to tribal mining opposition in the states. In fact, along with the province of Alberta, they are the primary beneficiaries of royalties (which are millions of dollars per DAY). Finally, SAG-D in situ extraction is becoming more the norm, which does not involve mining, tailings or a large footprint.
Neil does put his money where his mouth is with LincVolt - I will give him that. But opposing the XL Pipeline will do nothing but (a) result in a longer trans-Canada pipeline and (b) force more oil onto train tankers (which is far more dangerous).
Oh, and by the way - if you haven't been to the Wood Buffalo area before (Fort Mac and points north), it doesn't look like Banff or Jasper park - it is hundreds of square km of flat, boggy, stunted spruce so dense you can't navigate through it.
Also Thrasher, In regards to James Cameron...
The film producer (Titanic fame) flew up to Fort Mac a couple of years ago, in his private jet no less, to do the same tour as Neil Young for publicity. These hypocrites have no problem burning fossil fuel for their own gain and have the nerve to tell the middle class how they should pay more for fuel to save the environment.
I am from Alberta, and have been up to Fort Mac quite a few times. You cannot smell the oil sands in town and there is no increased in cancer rates or deaths. This climate change thing is all left wing hysteria that does a great job at employing Liberal Art Students, Lawyers, Politicians and sells lots of products that prey off your emotions.
I am not sure how old you are but I am old enough to have the Global Cooling hysteria, Global Warming hysteria and now the Climate Change hysteria. I am not saying that humans do not contribute to the climate in a very very small way but it should not translate to hysteria. The climate is always chaning wether we are here or not.
Neil is doing this to make a record and a film, more specifically he is doing this to make Moneeeeey!
Any "anti" concern for the environment is just self-important dribble, with no greater context; it's small minded.
See "Chasing Ice".
Consider that "conservation" is a conservative/slow approach to how we treat our environment vs. a "radical" approach, which advocates a do-what-we-want now, with no concern for the future. It's a blatant me-first-and-the-gimmie-gimmies approach to fuel use, and screw anyone that doesn't consent to "what I want and need now", future generations be damned, because "hell, i'll be dead anyway" weak kinda thinking...
Thanks again Jason.
So you're saying after you watched the suggested video, you still feel Neil is wrong?
For many of us, we fail to understand those who do not believe in clean water and air?
How exactly does one live without? We're very curious...
@Jason Smith. When you say "environmentalists," do you mean scientists that spent a decade just to get a degree, then spent their entire adult life studying the issues, experimenting, working with their well qualified peers, and coming to the radical conclusion that breathing in poison is bad or that burning fossil fuels for over a century might have an impact on the planet? I have never understood this rabid anti-intellectual mentality, where 99.9% of experts in a field of study all agree, yet they must be part of a global conspiracy to intentionally cause the downfall of the global economy...or something...screw them. I'd rather listen to the corporations (you don't think they have any vested interest in lying to you about this?) or read blog posts on Fox Nation instead or reading scientific, peer reviewed journals. There is money to be had in proving the entire scientific community wrong...conservative organizations have been funding such studies for a long time now. Only problem is, they never work out as they hoped, and peer reviewed studies that deny climate change don't exist.
Just to add, I've been heavily involved in the environmental and engineering analyses for reclaiming oil sand tailing basins for several years. I know from which I speak. The province has some cupability in the slow rate of reclamation because, in the interest of maximizing royalties (which they own), they have allowed the operators to defer the hard and expensive work of reclamation into the future. But that future is now. Make no mistake - these are the largest (areally speaking) mines and basins in the world but there are many other very large mining complexes in North America of similar scale - e.g., the Minnesota Mesabi Iron Range - right in Bob Dylan's back yard. And you don't see Bob shooting off his mouth about that.
People have so little faith in the ability of modern engineering to reclaim mined land. I think that is because there are several old mining districts that were just left to bleed. But that's not the modern technology/regulatory environment. There are many great examples of modern mines that have been extremely well reclaimed (e.g., uranium mines in northern Saskachewan). Neil puts his faith in modern engineering to deliver alternative transportion energy but no faith in environmental and geotechnical engineers. That's too bad.
We have two choices in North America - we can allow extractive activies but engineer and regulate the hell out of them so they are the best they can possibly be or we can let mineral resources be exploited in third-world countries with no controls at all. To me, that is the ultimate in hypocracy and environmental injustice. Either way, we get the result - fuel, steel, plastic, semiconductors - all the little things we take for granted.
I wish Neil would catalyze a mature discussion of this topic. Science and engineering are so demeaned and devalued in our society.
... Yes Thrasher I watch the video of the photographer, and keep in mind that this is a photographer and not a scientist. I know a wildlife photographer and believe me it is tough to make a living taking pictures of lions anymore. The shock value of the open mining of the oil sands definitely sells pictures and that is what he is in business doing. What he fails to point out is that "By Law" the land has to be reclaimed which means put back to its original state by the oil companies. The government of Albert has a good page on reclamation process http://www.oilsands.alberta.ca/reclamation.html, take a look at this as part of educating yourself on the oil sands since I watched your video. The surface mining is just a very very small part of extracting this resource, not the size of Florida as the photographer would want you to believe.
Thrasher, I am guessing you are from the U.S.? Have you ever been to Canada? Have you ever been to the Athabasca region? If you have not, take a trip up there it is very beautiful. My brother in law goes fly fishing on the Athabasca river every year, keep in mind that the oil sands seep into every surrounding river day after day for the last million years. The government keeps track of the water quality to ensure that the levels do not exceed normal ranges. The natives have used the oil sands to line their canoe to make them water tight for thousands of years.
Thrasher, do some research and form your opinion based on both sides of the story, not just what Neil says. Do you want to buy oil from someone who takes your money then stabs you in the back when you turn around? Or do you want to buy oil from someone who takes your money then buys your products (ie, Home Depot, Apple, McDonalds, Best Buy, Sears, IBM, Lowes, Costco......), provides great social services for the population so people don't illegally enter your country and serve as allies in almost all major conflicts.
There was a big oil spill millions of years ago, U.S. and Canada oil companies are cleaning it up.
Jason Smith,
IMHO I think you're wrong about Neil's motivations. Its one thing to disagree with his political, environmental, and scientific views. I for one agree that the 'global warming coalition' has opportunistically managed to shift the debate so much that most people accept as fact the hypothesis that human activity with respect to carbon will ruin the planet. And I also agree that the trade-off between a cleaner environment vs. eliminating people's livelihoods is a complex one. I do feel infuriated when I see Al Gore for example build a $500m fortune and live a Hollywood lifestyle from his global warming exploits ... That said, I think you tagging Neil as trying to profit from his views could not be more off base ... I see Neil's MO as being willing to say what he feels irrespective of pissing off fans ("ain't singing for Pepsi ..") he's totally not commercial that way at all ... he says what he feels, sings what he feels, expresses what he feels in whatever medium he sees fit ... those expressions are artistic at their core, and are pure, which is why it resonates so deeply with people ... LWW was not done to advance his commercial status, trust me, if its not 110% obvious ... LWW is called a career killer move, I'm sure Elliot was bemoaning that artistic decision ... so in summary, if you stick to the issues and argue the facts in a mature and respectful way thats cool ... the personal attacks seem childish and frankly embolden the (incorrect) arguments of the left suggest if you don't believe global warming is a certainty you're somehow less educated or intellectually inferior to those who have a more 'enlightened' perspective. I don't think your personal attacks calling Neil a hypocrite deserve a response other than to say the Lincoln Volt project with all its expenditure and time invested by Neil along with the publicity about clean energy (note LV doesn't use ethanol) represents a substantial investment in walking the walk ... its hard to find many (or any) other celebrities who are willing to dedicate themselves so sincerely toward a cause they believe in ... I don't always agree with all of Neil's political views but I admire his integrity a lot.
... well said Old Black. The energy industry has become fractured between technologies that are not economical (we are talking about to the average person not Neil) and the carbon intensive resources. Can you imagine if the U.S. took the 3 trillion dollars spent on the Iraq war and spent 1.5 on, say, carbon capture projects and 1.5 on renewable projects. We would have had 3,000 less dead American soldiers and an energy industry we could all be proud of (hey maybe even a U.S./Canada energy policy).
Dan, I am sorry you feel that I am personally attacking Neil. I have always enjoyed his music for what it is "Entertainment". Whether it can be considered Art or not is really left up to the individual, Art is a very broad definition and we can make anything fit that definition. I agree, Neil has always done what Neil wants to do, just because he does not sell "Commercial Records" (whatever that really means) he still has a formula for selling his image, records etc which could still be considered commercial. Neil traded off over exposure, in his early career, for longevity and he did really well at it. He is at the point in his career where selling his music is more and more difficult so he ends up with the likes of Daryl Hannah trying to get as much exposure anyway he can.
I do agree that LinkVolt is a Nobel project and that is why I end up at Thrashers page every so often, I like to see what the young engineers are up to. I keep myself in tune with the energy sector both on the fossil fuel and alternative energy side for investment purposes. I believe Neil crosses the line between Entertainer/Artist and politician when he shows up in Washington attempting to sway public policies. Once you are a politician I am MOST DEFINATLEY going to judge you. I want to know your background, education, motivation and all the nitty gritty details so I can determine if this is just a sell job or something that you really believe. As far as I am concerned this is just another Neil Young stop over, the Ft McMurray trip is just the movie piece of the next project, not a fact finding mission.
Neil Young sat in tonight with Peggy Young and the Survivors at Johnny D's Uptown in Somerville Mass. Awesome show! Neil played a New song..I wanna drive my car. Fuck the doubters.
@Jason Smith:
"large swaths of land have been reclaimed"
Pembina Institute, using Government of Alberta figures, says 0.15% of land disturbed by the oil sands has been reclaimed.
Is that really considered large swaths of land?
http://www.pembina.org/oil-sands/os101/reclamation
I agree with that as well - very little reclamation has taken place in the oil sands. This is a big, difficult problem. The tailing (waste rock) material that is produced after the bitumen is washed from the oil sand has a characteristic in which the very fine sediment grains and the coarse (sand-size) grains separate into what is called "segregated tailings". Companies have tried all kinds of methods to produce non-segregating tailings so that the tailings ponds can "set up" and lakes, wetlands, etc. can be built on top of them. But the result has been square-mile sized lakes that have a yogurt consistency and no strenght. Nothing can be built on them. The standard for strength for reclamation to proceed is that the ponds have to be able to support a moose. Not happening yet. Alberta has allowed the companies to move forward with production without requiring expenditure on reclamation (although that is changing quickly). The cost of reclamation with be billions. As a result (and because of the oil-shale revolution)companies have cancelled building future open-pit mines in favor of in situ extraction methods (SAG-D). Recently, Suncor cancelled plans to develop a big mine and the only new mine planned is the Fort Hills mine.
It remains to be seen if Alberta will begin to require Syncrude, Suncor, and Shell to begin to undertake the billions of dollars investment to reclaim.
Thanks Jason & Old Black and others for your thoughtful comments.
We'll check out the suggested video link. Appreciate your checking out the TED Talk. We found it to be very powerful & moving.
" The standard for strength for reclamation to proceed is that the ponds have to be able to support a moose."
That seems to be a pretty reasonable, unambiguous & measurable standard. And this is the fraud. The tar sands extraction is being done under the guise of restoration. The land will never be the same. never.
I am so confused with all pros and cons concerning these various oil related projects that I can't rightly take a strong position on the issue...Where I am not confused, however, and have strong issues with, are these idiotic comments concerning NY's motives in speaking his mind, as though it were some kind of self-promotion to sell records. Heard the same thing in 2006...When he released LWW he was effectively telling his millions of Republican fans (which he does have, of course) that they screwed up (twice) by voting for George...Right there and then he risked alienating half his potential fan base, and for what, people weren't going to go and become NY fans and start buying his stuff simply because he started singing 'Let's Impeach the President...And remember too, NY made the music available, for everybody to hear free on-line, before a single CD reached the store...The downside of this entire venture, to me outweighed any advantages to Neil, in any material way...and songs like 'Ohio' don't exist because a songwriter thought he might make a dollar off it; not ! That song exists because the sight of a picture made the artist angry enough to write it . It's as simple as that. No "shtick" involved there...
Winston,
My point is not to slam Neil but any negative comments about Neil tend to touch a nerve with this board. I am a fan, I believe that the best work/messages Neil has put out have always been very powerful in their simplicity. One comment Neil made (am not sure where I read it) which has always stuck with me was when he said "eat food that is bought in brown paper bag, not colorful packaging" (or something like that). That simple comment has resonated with me for years and has inspired me to start gardening on my acreage to the point where I can share some food with my neighbors. My weight has decreased, cholesterol decreased, blood pressure etc. I even find myself humming "Field of Opportunity" when tilling my gardens. Powerful stuff!
What I do have a problem with is people believing that Neil is some sort of Mother Theresa of Climate Change. Neil probably does have a conscience and that may be why he spends thousands of dollars on the LinkVolt hobby car, maybe he feels it makes up for the large carbon footprint he has produced accumulating all his wealth. Once you become very political in your views you open yourself to be scrutinized, and we better scrutinize him or we all become just a bunch of Neil Young's lemmings.
I am just a "lay it on the table" type of guy. If I sat down with Neil and said what I feel to his face, he would give me one of those crocked smiles and buy me a beer.
There is an album, video and maybe a book in the works. Let's see what Neil does with the proceeds.
@Dan1,
I meant to point this out earlier but LinkVolt does use Ethanol to generate electricity to power the car. You have the option to charge the car using coal produced electricity (which Neil claims is cleaner then Gasoline), Fracked Natural Gas generated electricity, Hydro generated Electricty (dam those fish), Nuclear generated electricity or Ethanol generated electricty (the U.S. has plenty of food so start burning the dam stuff).
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