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Sunday, December 02, 2007

Sit vs Stand: The Never Ending Dilemma

A concert goers never ending dilemma of sitting versus standing has been a topic on Neil Young's current tour. Coby comments on the Buffalo concert:
-To dance or not to dance?

This seems to be a problem at all recent Neil concerts. Once the electric set kicked off, a VERY small contingent of fans decided to dance. This aggravated the people sitting behind them, who yelled profanities, threw garbage... all in a vain effort to get them to sit down. I'm on the fence here because I don't want to sound like a concert snob because I understand both sides of the argument. People payed good money to see this show and they want to SEE it, not just hear. However, part of the experience for other people is to dance and really enjoy themselves. I have to admit being a little saddened that people didn't dance during "The Loner" because the song just begs for it. I usually gage the crowd however and act accordingly. I could see, tap my foot, bob my head, mouth the words, all during the electric set.. and had a hell of a time. Although, the encore allowed me to stand and move a little, which was even more fun. I guess I'd just like a more understanding crowd. There's no point in swearing at people. It's a concert, coexist and share the experience, you never know if you'll get the opportunity again.

Peace!

dance-quote.jpg
Photo & Banner by Ron "Love And Only Love"


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69 Comments:

At 12/02/2007 08:31:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we were meant to stand for the whole show,then there would be no seats. But I think it's ok to stand to applaud after songs or for the encore......but honestly some people want to sit comfortable and watch the show, and other people should respect that. We bought tickets for SEATS to a show and people should use them for the most part. I went to one CSNY show in particular where I had 8th row seats just off center , and it was realy difficult to enjoy becasue throughout the whole show there were different groups of people standing, so we HAD to stand for 95% of the show to see anything !
At one point , in my area, there were only 2 people standing......and they were directly in front of me. Everyone asked them in a reasonable way at first to sit, but they ignored the majority.Then people got nasty and they finaly sat down.It was 2 selfish people blocking the view for 50-100 other people.
I think theres a time to stand where it's ok, but not for the whole show or every verse of a song one likes ! Its gets annoying ....up...down....up...down

 
At 12/03/2007 01:23:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems a little hard to argue, although it already has been, that for the rock and roll songs, folks should be required to sit down and should not be able to dance without being harassed. For Neil fans, I would hope they would understand that the first set is for sitting down and the second set is largely for dancing, if folks want to. If you don't want to dance and you have someone in front of you that wants to, then stand up. It's tricky, but just because Neil has chosen to play in beautiful old theatres that have great sound doesn't mean that he wants people to stay seated or they should feel required to. I also understand that many are getting older and can't stand up for a whole second set, so some coexistence and mutual consideration at a Neil concert, as in the rest of life, should be a given. And for those who truly want to see the entire concert without someone dancing in front of them, maybe the balcony is the way to go, as the seated side and upstairs areas could be for arenas.

 
At 12/03/2007 07:53:00 AM, Anonymous Fastman said...

What bothers me mostis that the people that do stand or dance have absolutely no consideration for others around them. Its a matter of courtesy.

If you know that you are making it less enjoyable for someone else by blocking their view why would you do that? If the majority of the crowd are standing or dancing then I can see no problem. Otherwise I find it a selfish act - its just not cool to take away the enjoyment of others because you feel like it.

 
At 12/03/2007 08:58:00 AM, Anonymous Rockman said...

There is only one way to ROCK while you are sitting down and that is if your seat is a "rocking chair", which I have never seen at any concert venue I've been to. Rock and roll was made to dance to-period. If you want to sit and listen to the music try the opera or stay home and watch a dvd. When you go to a concert you have to expect people will stand up and dance and just because you don't want to do that it does not give you the right to tell someone they have to sit down. They paid just as much for their ticket as you did.
I saw Neil once in Providence where they had an interviewer talking to people during the intermission and two girls were whining about not being able to see because people were dancing. The interviewer then announced that he had spoken to Neil and that Neil had asked for everyone to stay seated. When Neil emerged from his dressing room to start the second half of the show he ripped the interviewer a new a**hole for saying something that Neil did not say. Neil went on to say exactly what I stated earlier, the people who were dancing had paid for their right to do so.
What really gets me are the people who bitch and complain and throw things at others who are dancing but at some point in the show one of their favorites is played and they jump up and start dancing. Like now it's OK because they want to dance to this ONE song.
Obviously there are shows that people will not stand up for. Alan Parsons or present day Jethro Tull (acoustic) come to mind, but when you go to see Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, John Mellencamp, The Stones, The Who,or Crazy Horse, if expect everyone around you to sit down because you want to you should save your money and stay home.
Neil has crafted this show in two parts, the solo acoustic part for your listening pleasure and the ROCK part to let loose. If people are standing during the first half you have something to bitch about but after the break you should be ready to dance or GO HOME!
Like I always tell the people behind me bitching when I stand up--"if I sit down how are you going to kiss my ass?"

 
At 12/03/2007 11:13:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think FASTMAN is correct. The problem is generaly a few people with little or no consideration for ALL the people behind them.

Rockman, to simply say " If you want to sit and listen to the music try the opera or stay home and watch a dvd." just proves you are an ignorant asshole.......
I drive my car with rock music very loud very often....do I have to dance ? No , I have to sit and drive ! When i walk down the street listening to an electric "Cowgirl" thru my headphones or on a subway , do I dance ? No. The music may move me a bit, but I dont outright dance.
One can certainly sit in their seat for a rock concert and move to the music in your damn seat.It is people like you that needs to go elsewhere, like a club or a bar , if your goal is to dance.

another scenario that often occurs,is a couple of jerks in the 3rd row will stand up and refuse to sit.......then after a while of being frustrated, people in the 4th, 5th, 6th row begin to stand, just so they can see the show they paid for ! then gradualy the people behind them must stand just to see ! This is rediculous.eventualy you have 2000 people standing because of 5 selfish people.What kind of shit is that ?

Also to be considered,there are some people who for physical reasons, cant stand for a long time and some cant comfortably stand for 1 song. I have family memebers who enjoy going to occasional concerts, BUT have some physical illness that makes it extremely painful at times to stand more than a minute or 2.
So under "Rockmans rules", they simply cant see the show unless they spent $ 1200 for a first row seat.
Keep in mind also, that Neil has done tours and played places that have no seats and everyone had to stand. I have been to some of those concerts BUT we all knew the deal going in.

As for myself, after paying mega prices for good seats,if I get some assholes blocking my view and they refuse to be considerate,I will not hesitate to get physical with them. I'm not paying these prices to look at someones ass.
and if it comes down to a shove or a punch, so be it.

 
At 12/03/2007 12:11:00 PM, Anonymous rockman said...

It would be quite difficult to drive and dance at the same time but we are talking about a rock concert atmosphere not your car or the subway.
I don't pretend I get to make the rules so why do the slugs who prefer to sit get to make them. I have been to literally thousands of concerts since the early seventies and have seen bands beg people to get off their asses and show some excitement. They thrive on it.
I do feel bad for someone who is phsyically unable to stand but they are not the ones that piss and moan about someone standing. It's usually some idiot with two goods legs who would rather sit and complain. I bet that the person in the wheelchair would give anything to be able to get up and dance. I have never stood in front of anyone who could not stand up themselves. Maybe there are people who cannot sit for two hours because that is so painful for them. Would you forbid them to stand?
You mentioned going to shows that had no seats and knowing that everyone would be standing going in. I'll say it again, when you go to a ROCK CONCERT you can expect people are going to ROCK and that means people will get up for some of the show, sometimes all of it.
Perhaps when they sell you a ticket it should specify that dancing is NOT allowed, or they could post sigs that say " NO SMOKING OR DANCING". Until that happens I reserve the right to rock at a concert. I'll be at the show in Boston tonight and if I'm standing in front of you during the rock portion feel free to throw that first punch. You do realize that you will have to stand up to do so?

 
At 12/03/2007 12:37:00 PM, Blogger Zeke said...

I had balcony seats for last nights show. Two guys in front of me were tossed during the break after the acoustic set. I asked the people who complained what the problem was and, the said they were talking and singing.
No standing, no dancing. Talking!
I couldn't believe they were made to leave.
The only prolonged standing in my section was during the encore.
Great show by the way.

 
At 12/03/2007 12:40:00 PM, Anonymous Jeff from NH said...

I'm not a dancer, but I was surprised that no one stood up during the concert. The Orpheum in Boston has really cramped seats, so standing (for me) may be more comfortable. Most of the rock shows, I've been to are generally standing most of the time, most recently The Smashing Pumpkins at the same venue. But, I followed the crowd. I agree that it is a question of coutesy for those behind you.

I think it was understandable to sit for the quiet set, but I expected everyone to stay on their feet for the electric set and they didn't. They were on their feet at the end, but only for a song or two otherwise.

 
At 12/03/2007 01:45:00 PM, Anonymous john barleycorn said...

This has always been a dilemma... as has been stated... if the majority are standing and rocking...OK... but when it is one or two standing in front of the many.... well, it sucks... as for me.... I have the unfortunate problem of not having the luxury of standing as I will be there in a wheelchair... I paid big bucks for the tix and if I get a bunch of peoples ass's in my face all night( I am going to tonights show 12/3) it will suck even more as I don't have the choice to stand. You would not believe the amount of people that could give a shit if you can't see AND can't stand. I will post after the show tonight and we will see how I make out.

 
At 12/03/2007 03:12:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It all comes down to the "Look At Me" thing. You are not the center of attention in a concert environment, much as you want it to be. If you want to dance, go to a dance. If you want to go to a concert SIT YOUR ASS DOWN when asked to.

 
At 12/03/2007 06:18:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quiet Acoustic = sit; Electric = Stand; If you wouldn't have sat down during a Neil Young electric set in another decade, you shouldn't be doing so now, and you definitely shouldn't be complaining about people who want to actually act like it's a rock n' roll concert.

 
At 12/03/2007 06:45:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

I went to the Seattle show. On the third song of the electric set, the crowd rushed the stage, we never stopped jumping and moving. I'm sorry, but sitting down during a hot electric show really isn't in the original spirit of rock and roll, and I'd like to see what the 16-year-old versions of all the old farts complaining about the dancers would say.

 
At 12/03/2007 07:16:00 PM, Anonymous mason said...

I'm probably in the middle in terms of age of the people who I saw at the Seattle show...maybe slighlty above middle at 43. There were a lot of "mature" people there and, thankfully, quite a few young people. I can't imagine telling the young people to sit down. Someone said it best: if you saw Neil "back in the day" and stook then you should try to refrain from complaining about people standing/dancing now. It makes you sound like an old fogey. I've always thought of rock shows as a live and let live thing. Sure, I sometimes get annoyed if someone stands when I'd rather not...a couple of people did this during the acoustic set in Seattle. But ultimately it's their right to do so. During the electric set I may have stayed seated some if I had the choice but the crowd wanted to boogey so I did too.

So think WAY back to when you were in your teens or twenties. Did you stay seated at shows? Did you give a rats ass what the elders who attended the show thought? I thought not.

 
At 12/03/2007 07:44:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

gots to chime in cause I love to dance, I am almost 50 and I had a real hard time staying in my damn seat for electric set. Yet at those ticket prices we seem doomed to rules and politeness, and I like to think I am not an aho, so I fight with my own self to stay seated.

this goes on at Wilco shows too, I call it the fancy arena syndrome, saw one wilco show where jeff tweedy tried to humorously address this. to dance or not to dance, most of us can see it both ways,

thats why I love a GA floor and the rest reserved seats. Funny to think at dead shows you had to " sneak" onto the floor if you were unlucky enuf to get a reserved seat :-)))

At Buffalo, before the encore I looked for a spot, where I would not block anybodys vision,and got out of my seat, moved there ready to dance for theencore.
To the folks who think dancing is inconsiderate or thinks dancers want attention ( oh brother) let me suggest you consider it this way... some people don't move much to music, think of Jerry, even when he was younger, doing his most blistering stuff he was not much of a mover,

and then some people just can't help" being " moved" by music, think of Neil when he plays, hard to imagine him staying still.

point is some of our bodies just like to move to music, and so this fancy arena thing with no GA floor, will always carry this dilemna

 
At 12/03/2007 07:50:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

Ther is only once answer to this wuestion. when Neil plugs in and stratrs crushing Loner, you get up and shake it like there' sno tomorrow. What is wrong with you people? Seriously. It was one of teh big dissapointments of my life that people who purport to be Neil Young fans don't dance when he's crushing a psychedelic No Hidden Path, or just devastating you with Everybody Knows. I mean seriously. Look in the mirror and don't like what you see if you daare call yoruself a Neil fan and think people shouldn't dance during an electric rock and roll set of Neil Young music. Check yourself people. Check yourself.

 
At 12/03/2007 08:16:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Been going to concerts since tix were $4, not $400, and in all my years my 5'6" self rarely 'saw" the band perform, and I could care less.

Do I need to watch them do what they do? Nope, I just hope the sound system is stellar and the band is having a good night.

If I can get up and move I am pretty content.and if my bros and sisters who want to sit all night have seats where they can watch, and the sound is good for them too, then we're all happy

To me it ain't the movies, its a live communal particpatory experience; we are a part of making it happen. And, I do agree with lak's line, when Neil starts crushin it, just get up and shake it if you can

If you can't... thats OK, I still think you're as big a fan, It would just be great if you could suspend the need to "see" while he's wailing, just hearing Neil in this mode is almost sensory overload !! Long live those guys, lots of us love em cause they rock, and, sorry but... rock and roll means get up and dance folks.

 
At 12/04/2007 11:30:00 AM, Anonymous Rockman said...

So happy to see the last five posts from peopple who agree that a rock concert is not and should not be a sit and stare affair. No rock band, whether they are a local cover band playing in a bar or legends like Neil want to play to a bunch of manequins sitting lifeless in their seats.
At the Boston show last night I did not see anyone get up during the electric set until the last two songs. What a shame that they waited all night to let loose just before the show ended. I got up for about thirty seconds at the end of "The Loner" and the guy behind me immediately complained that he couldn't see. We just sat through an hour of acoustic stuff, didn't he see enough then? I wanted to tell him to go f himself but I went with the flow and sat back down. Usually I would have just kept dancing but I literally would have been the only one. So I sat in my seat and clapped my hands over my head, waiting for him to complain about that too.
I like the line someone said about "it ain't the movies". I've used that one many times. Like I said in an earlier post, if you want to sit and stare go to an opera or watch the dvd. Live rock music is meant to get a LIVE rock response. I am 54 years young and am not ready for the rocking chair yet. I guess if the people who go to rock shows, only to "see" the bands, lost their sight they would no longer attend concerts? While I'm jumping around and really getting into the music I sometimes close my eyes and pretend what it would be like for me to go to a show if I were blind.I smile because I realize that not being able to "see" the band would not matter one bit, as long as I can hear the music and FEEL the music it's all good.
Elvis Presley said it best when he was asked in an interview why he swiveled his hips when he sang. He said "Rock and roll--if you like it--if you feel it--it just makes you want to move".
I had a great time at last night's show and am cosidering going again on Thursday, but I still feel that the show would have benefitted from a really raucous dancing crowd during the electric set.
It's funny because I've been to thousands of shows and have never heard any rock band ask eveyone to sit and stare but have heard them implore people to stand up, clap their hands, sing along, etc. It's the slugs who should have stayed home in the first place that demand eveyone sit with them. I'll be at Mellencamp in Providence next week in the "shin-dig seats" wher I know everyone will be rockin'. I hope Fatsman, I mean Fastman is at the opera.

 
At 12/04/2007 12:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you were the only one standing, THAT should tell you everything you need to know.

 
At 12/04/2007 03:24:00 PM, Blogger wildman said...

I went to the Buffalo show. I stayed in my seat most of the night, I could rock and beat my foot and slap my leg without standing up and getting in front of the folks behind me. I got up when the crowd got up together. But to be the lone indian doing your jig in front of the people behind you is rude and inconsiderate, and I don't care if its electric or accoustic. When everyone else got up, I got up, but mostly to see the moves the man was making. I think Rock and Roll is very visual. And I think the selfish ones who make the specticle shoud be told to sit down. Put yourself in the other guys' seat for a minute. He paid good money too. And don't get too pissed off. Would you sit down if your mother or brother or sister asked you? Then behave!

 
At 12/04/2007 03:32:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this tells us anything it's that this issue will never die. Listening to some bootlegs from the 70s you can hear people on yelling "Sit down!" to others back then. This will go on & on & on.

Personally, I sit & am totally quiet during the acoustic set. That's what it calls for. I'd like to have stood for the electric set but that wasn't my section (would've preferred to be 2 sections down). I did stand for the encores with others in my section though.

What really, really pisses me off are the a-holes who talk during the acoustic set & sing their asses off during the electric. Music is for the ears, so don't screw with that!!

 
At 12/04/2007 04:24:00 PM, Blogger wildman said...

Just a final thought as well. These shows are theatre settings with no real room for the dancing crowd. Recent Dylan and Springsteen shows are being performed in the larger arenas with both genreal admission floor areas (i.e. no seats) and with reserved seats in the sections around the floor. That set-up accomodates everyone. But thats not the set-up here. And I'm with anonymous on the talking and shouting out during the songs. That got in the way alot the other night.

 
At 12/04/2007 06:44:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

If you don't dance during Everybody Knows, you're spiritless and should stay home. It was a terrible shame that noboday danced during the second set of the show I saw. Some did. i did, but eventually sat down to acommodate those old fogies behind me. I was SURE it was a function of LA and not swomething that went on elsewhere. Sad to hear it happens in other cities. I guess that is what you get for having an older crowd with money.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLAY THE WARFIELD AGAIN NEIL.

I need to hear "No Hidden Path" again and be in a trance like state dancing for it.

Never thought love
had a rainbow on it
Used to think a cloud
was a nightmare
That was up until
I first met you
Now I go around
hoping you care.

Dance, dance,
feel it all around you
Dance, dance, dance,
Never thought love
had a rainbow on it
See the girl dance
See the girl dance.

Mississippi mud
never touched her fingers
California sand
lies in her hand
Love her more than life
as the daylight lingers
Early in the morning
I'll be her man.

Dance, dance,
feel it all around you
Dance, dance, dance,
Mississippi mud
never touched her fingers
See the girl dance
See the girl dance.

---

When you dance,
Do your senses tingle?
Then take a chance?
In a trance,
While the lonely mingle
With circumstance?

I've got
something to tell you,
you make it show.
Let me come over,
I know you know
When you dance
I can really love.

I can love,
I can really love,
I can really love
I can love,
I can really love,
I can really love

Like a
mountain that's growing
a river that rolls
Let me come over,
I know you know
When you dance
I can really love.

When you dance,
Do your senses tingle?
Then take a chance?
In a trance,
While the lonely mingle
With circumstance?

I've got
something to tell you,
you make it show.
Let me come over,
I know you know
When you dance
I can really love.

Q.E.D.

 
At 12/04/2007 07:07:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

I think we can all definitely agree with the guy who said the people shouting out and singing RUIN the show. It's beyond me how anyone can think the crowd will love them for letting out a "woooohooooo" during Ambulance Blues.

 
At 12/05/2007 06:53:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lak, you are very judgemental.
Arrogant is the softest word I can use. It's people like you that are the cause of all the world problems. You think you are above everyone, you think you know better, and you judge and look down on everyone who YOU feel isn't as cool as you.You're attitude seems foolish to me.
Why should 500 people have to stand up, when they prefer to sit, just because folks like you insist on standing ? It's realy elementary
and selfish.

 
At 12/05/2007 10:14:00 AM, Anonymous Fastman said...

To Rockman and the Shakey Dancerettes

No one is saying dancing should be banned. I just think there is a time and a place for it.
This particular tour is mostly staged in carefully selected vintage theaters and concert halls – not dance halls.

I take offense to you calling other Neil fans “idiots”, “slugs” and “bunch of manequins sitting lifeless in their seats.” - Just because they don’t get up and dance. I am willing to bet more than half the audience would stand/dance/move to the groove under the right circumstances. It’s been my experience that most Neil fans show a fairly reasonable level of respect to their fellow man – I can’t say I feel that from you. For the 30 years I have been going to Neil shows I have found the fans to be very cool people always bringing good karma. So why would you want to wreck another persons good time?

I also take exception to your; "it ain't the movies". I've used that one many times. Like I said in an earlier post, if you want to sit and stare go to an opera or watch the dvd.”

Perhaps you are missing something here? Neil is a very visual artist. Look back at Rust tours with road eyes, oversized speakers etc, CSNY – Living with War with video collages and a ticker tape showing us a list of sacrificed souls reminding us of the realities of war, the Crazy Horse rusted out garage Ragged Glory with remote control cockroaches running around the stage etc – Greendale was a totally visual experience that coincided with the music – Neil’s a filmmaker and I believe some of this art form is integrated into his shows

Even this tour has its visual aspects. The artist painting pictures, the vintage stage setup with Neil’s weathered old gear, vintage pianos, the old pump organ in the back, the backdrop, the old Indian statue guarding stage right, the letters above the stage, the mirror ball dangling under the pianos, the illuminating red telephone center stage, real humans up on the towers controlling lights and so on … These visuals have all been carefully thought out and finally tuned as part of the Neil Young experience. I for one really appreciate them and enjoy taking them in immensely as part of the whole experience.

I also enjoy watching how Neil performs his material from a technical standpoint. The facial expressions, the look up to the sky when he sings Old Man, when he closes his eyes – I feel it – it resonates with me. I love watching how he squeezes that unbelievable sound out, the foot pedals for fuzz and distortion and feedback control, watching how fast Larry Cragg re-strings and re-tunes old black and seeing it strapped back on the master wondering what he has in store for us next, the circle jams where Neil is wiggin out, the times I have seen Neil’s son Ben strapped in his wheel chair side stage – I wonder how that feels on all levels? There’s more to the picture than meets the eye – of course no pun intended 


So I am sorry that some of us Neil fans get something else out of his performances that maybe you don’t. The next time you dance/stand blocking someone I hope you will take into consideration that you could be destroying someone’s special experience. Calling them a bunch of names because they don’t stand and dance because it’s “ROCK” is just not cool. I am sure you could find a standing position on the sides or back of the theatre to dance your little heart out. The 3 shows I went to all had room for that. Be cool dude

 
At 12/05/2007 12:36:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

EXCELLENT POST.

 
At 12/05/2007 05:23:00 PM, Blogger Tanz said...

I feel fortunate to have sat next to a pillar in the orchastra section at the Portland show. As long as my feet kept out of the aisle and I danced in front of the pillar; the ushers, the "sitters" and myself were all happy. TAKE NOTE: GET A SEAT NEXT TO PILLARS!!
Music halls should designate dancing areas, or announce no dancing prior to show if not allowed. I personally won't buy a ticket if you can't dance at a Neil electric show. Otherwise, "sackers" should "sit" in the balcony!

 
At 12/05/2007 05:46:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, dickheads like you are the ones who should sit in the very last row of the balcony, so you can
do what you like without impacting the enjoyoment of the show for others. Some of us want to enjoy the show on a more complete or deeper level.For $ 200 a ticket,nobody should have to look at someones ass blocking their view.

 
At 12/05/2007 11:10:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

I really disagree with whoever said it isn't important to see Neil at all, that's not cool, and if you are blocking somebody's view, you should probably sit down and be more considerate. However, I would encourage everybody to have a little life and stand the hell up! I definitely found that many of attendees on this tour were the "wine and cheese" crowd. They slipped out for a few glasses of wine or a $50 t-shirt during the intermission and bitched to the poor people working security when they couldn't file back in mid-Loner, and they're the same people dropping their monocles in disgust at the hooligans ruining the seats they "paid good money" for. But the real Neil junkies know that the real orgasmic electric Neil experience is standing up, drenched in sweat, packed in with the rest of the crowd like sardines, the bass ripping your eardrums to shreds, watching Neil tear across the stage like a firestorm. And I don't care if you can see a little better, you're not going to feel that intensity sitting on your ass, not knowing what to do with yourself because you don't want to look like a square, so you kind of awkwardly bob your head or tap your feet. It's a sad thing to watch, really.

On a side note, personal comments such as "dickhead" are really not necessary.

 
At 12/06/2007 06:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But the truth is that your a dickehead too.Your another judgemental asshole who thinks he's got it all figured out, knows everything about other people,and wants to arrogantly dictate how all people should all act like you.......the names Hitler, Mao,Castro, Pol Pot come to mind.
As someone who is not the "wine and cheese "crowd,doesn't have $$,
and has seen Neil over 100 times since 1971, I recognize you for what you are.... an arrogant asshole.
Yet you think you're so cool.LOL.
A real dickhead.

 
At 12/06/2007 08:02:00 AM, Anonymous wildman said...

"The big wind blows, until the tall grass bends, but for you don't push too hard my friend"

 
At 12/06/2007 09:13:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew some people
used to dance all night
But not me
I never knew
if it was wrong or right
To be so free

- NY - Weight of the World

 
At 12/06/2007 06:23:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

To "anonymous"-
How can you call me judgmental and arrogant and then compare me to Pol Pot for preferring to stand at a rock concert. I'm not telling anybody what to do, and if the crowd around me was seated, I would sit my ass down and be respectful. I think the ridiculous amount of venom poured forth in your posts shows everyone who the "dickehead" is. The only point I'm trying to make is that, in my experience, standing up is much more conducive to connecting with the passion of an artist than sitting passively. And as a musician I know how much it can kill the energy of a show when people refuse to leave their seat. I'm not going to impose this little philosophy on anybody and will probably sit to accommodate them if the crowd is leaning towards sitting.

Honestly I think the real problem is that there isn't a place for people to stand without blocking the view of people who want to sit. This problem isn't easily remedied without going to a large arena with a GA and seated section, but I think Seattle really had it perfect, there was a good space between the stage and the seats where the crowd ran up, and anybody that chose to stay behind had a fine view.

 
At 12/06/2007 07:03:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If people can't understand why it's not cool to stand up in front of people when 98% of people are sitting down, they are either selfish a holes or morally retarded.

 
At 12/06/2007 08:10:00 PM, Anonymous Rockman said...

Wow, people who dance at rock conerts are now the cause of all the world's problems--Hitlers! Yikes!
I have asked the question before and am still waiting for the answer--why is it that the people who want to sit are the "right" people and the dancers are wrong? Why is it that if I stand up I am ruining someone's special experience but they are not ruining my special experience by demanding that I stay seated?
You'll say that the majority wants to sit but perhaps more people would stand if they weren't afraid that they'll be harrassed or even punched by some anonymous dickhead.
It was also mentioned that the theaters Neil is playing in are not dance halls so dancing should not be allowed. These places were built before rock concerts were invented, designed for plays and operas. Now they are used for rock shows because they provide artists with a smaller venue to play in. The Orpheum in Boston is a dumpy old theater where they allow rock shows becuase they figure the crowds will be rowdy. I doubt they would have booked Neil in the Opera House or Symphony Hall. By the way, I just saw Annie Lennox at Symphany Hall and I totally expected to sit all night surrounded by snobby patrons who got tickets because the hold season tickets to the Boston Pops. To my delight the crowd was on it's feet from the moment Annie took the stage and those that chose not to stand did not complain at all. But Neil Young, the God-father of Grunge, who's fans bring such good karma to the shows, can't get them off their asses for an hour during a Crazy Horse sonic assault. Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

 
At 12/06/2007 10:22:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I have asked the question before and am still waiting for the answer--why is it that the people who want to sit are the "right" people and the dancers are wrong?"


the answer lies in that the theatre has seats. To be able to go to the concert, you need to buy a ticket.Your ticket has a seat #. And thats where you are supposed to be to watch the show.And there are different priced tickets, because they charge and we pay for better visual.( but there is no better visual if you are standing in front of someones view)You bought a ticket to watch a show in a theatre with seats and it's a ticket with an assigned seat #.
I have seen Neil in a theatre with no seats and it was great.But that's not what this is !

 
At 12/06/2007 11:55:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

The seats are there to give you an option, and everybody sits during the acoustic portion. Standing will not change the fact that a more expensive ticket puts you closer to Neil (unless you were in Seattle :D).

 
At 12/07/2007 08:13:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think I go to hear the music most of all. If I get a clear view of the performers for a moment or for the entire show makes little difference to me. I sit in my seat and dance in my head,

 
At 12/07/2007 09:11:00 AM, Anonymous Fastman said...

This Rockman guy seems to have the intellectual capacity of a fruit fly. It’s about respect for the other people buddy. Why can't you get that? 1 or 2 people blocking the view of 50 people is not cool.

You were probably the same guy that yelled out "Play Thrasher!!!!" during Neil’s Ambulance Blues

You remind me of the guy that speeds down the road making 50 lane changes cutting everyone off, endangering everyone on the road. Then we see you at the same traffic light and you justify it all because you are “entitled” to do this because there’s a Road! And I Drive a Sports Car!

Sure this analogy is a bit of a stretch but so is your dancing fool reality distortion generator routine. If your blinders are strapped on so tight that you can’t see what cause and effect you are having on others then you are a helpless case.

You are the one that needs to buy the DVD, stay at home and dance your heart out. Unfortunately you are a reminder that we live in a mememe world and common sense is not very common.

 
At 12/07/2007 11:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seeing Neil live is an experience and I want to soak up every minute of it. If I'm sitting for every second of the show it's because I am concentrating deeply and I'm lost in the music. The last thing I want is to be distracted by dancing people or jerks yelling and laughing.
This is a Neil Young show; if you want to dance go to a rave or whatever it is that the kids are into today.

 
At 12/07/2007 12:56:00 PM, Anonymous Rockman said...

So let's see, I am supposed to sit down because there are seats. The theater also has a floor which was meant to stand on so?????????? The purchase of your ticket gets you into the show-- it in no way states or implies that you must remain seated. Would you have them tear out the seats so that everyone knows what to expect going in?
If you read all my posts completely,Fastman, I clearly stated that I sat quietly for the entire acoustic set, soaking it all in and enjoying every minute. Now comes the electric set and I am vilified for wanting to enjoy that part of the show differently. Again, the sitters want it THEIR WAY ALL THE TIME. They get to make the rules, period. Why can't you understand that your eyes still work while you're standing up, so unless the guy standing in front of you is ten feet tall you will still be able to see the show.
At the show I went to they asked evryone to be quiet during the first set and they would not let you back to your seat during a song if you left. I did not hear any announcement that dancing would not be allowed during the electric set so I guess it would have been OK with Neil. Next time I'll be sure to ask him.

 
At 12/07/2007 04:01:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

If you're listening so closely to the music, you shouldn't care if others are doing the same while standing and moving their bodies. You clearly don't need to see a thing tolisten with discipline. Hello this is Neil F-ing Young. This is rock and roll. Just becasue there are seats doesn't mean you can't stand and shake it, or aren't supposed to. Aren't you fogies children of the 60s? What happened to you all?

Ther eisn't a chance Neil wants people to sit for teh electric set. Dancing adds energy to the environement, provides feedback.

Dancing and talking aren't the same things.

And I'll have you know out of respect for you souless fools who neither dance nor really LISTEN, I sat back down.

And yes I'll judge you because you are wrong, and had that show been $20 tickets with youthful fans, there isn't a chance they'd sit for a second during that second set.

You're just showing your age and your lack of spirit. Dancing and Music go hand in hand. Your ability to listen to that No Hidden Path is only enhanced when you are moving to the Rythem.

Honestly. WTF?

 
At 12/07/2007 04:17:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

Further is "seeing" is just your criteria, what is the problem with having to stand to see? In the end it is you sitters who are being restricting and disrespectful. If I dance and you want to see behind me, well then stand up. If its just that you don't want to stand you are probably too lazy or too old to be attending rock concerts in the first place.

But sitting down makes me sit down to, and that restrict my freedom.

Ask yourself, what is a reasonable expectation to have with ragrd to standing dduring a rock concert, let alone a rock concert by Neil?

That should answer this questions.

 
At 12/07/2007 04:47:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Ask yourself, what is a reasonable expectation to have with ragrd to standing dduring a rock concert, let alone a rock concert by Neil?"

This really isn't a rock concert; an evening with Neil is more of an intimate experience; I'm 30 and I left those hard rock days behind me; I just want to relax and enjoy the show and the show doesn't include some drunks dancing around.

 
At 12/07/2007 05:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did any of you dancing types read these posts? Most of the complaints come from the fact that there are a "few" people that stand up and block the view of "many" - the point was this was kind of inconsiderate - which most agree is.

So to go on and say people are showing their age, lazy, mannequins or attend operas etc. is pretty damn lame! - Many of the people sitting may want to dance, stand whatever - I just think most are considerate enough not to block the people that don't.

 
At 12/07/2007 07:59:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

The problem is that everybody is only thinking of things from their point of view. Dancers say "by sitting you force me to sit, and that's unfair." Sitters say "by standing you force me to stand, and that's unfair." Obviously not everyone can have what they want, and I think it's easiest to decide what to do democratically. If the audience feels the energy and wants to get on their feet, they shouldn't worry about offending those who came on the nursing home bus. If most people just want to sit back and enjoy the tunes, they shouldn't have to worry about a few a-holes ruining everyone's time. And the great thing is, what the crowd wants is usually what happens. It will never be perfect, and there's always some people out their who can't get over their own selfishness, but I think most of the time a rock concert, especially a Neil concert, is filled with considerate people who just want to have a nice evening.

 
At 12/10/2007 02:48:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

Except that when you stand, you can still see. When you sit you can't dance. So forcing dancers to sit is far worse than forcing laemos to stand if seeing Neil is so important.

There is a reasonable expectation to have to stand at any rock concert one attends, let alone the concert of a old hippie who crushes psychedelic rock.

The sitters are just wrong on this one (and yes, I sat eventually. And yes it sucked. And yes sitters should be ashamed of themselves, or should give their tickets to people with more spirit.)

 
At 12/11/2007 07:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

except that my wife, at 5'2", when everyone in front of her stands and therefore she has to stand and can't see see a fuckin thing !
Yeah, that sounds fair. The hell with the people shorter than you that cant see, even when they stand. $ 200 a fuckin ticket and she can'teven see a damn thing because of people like you.
I'd pay $ 500 a ticket just to know
people like you arent gonna be there.
You are an asshole.

 
At 12/11/2007 10:17:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I didn't go to See Neil Young and then have to stand there and look at the back of your head I'm going to see Neil, the band the stage. Why can't you just sit down. I can listen anytime.

 
At 12/11/2007 04:11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think at this point, after many people have tried to reason with the selfish folks who block the view of others, the answer is simple........
lets try this in NY !..... someone stands in front of you........
simply piss on them ! If everyone does it, watch how fast they stop !
Reasonable behaviour ? No. but neither is standing at a cocnert blocking the view of other and not giving a shit !
PISS ON THEM !

 
At 12/11/2007 06:24:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

Hey dummy, if your wife is 5'2" she's going to be watching the backs of heads whether sitting or standing, unless her legs are stumpy?

The point is people like you should not go to the show in teh first place.

to say you can "listen anytime" shows how ittle you appraciate live music.

who the f doesn;t dance when they go see Neil? Aleientaed old assholes, that's who.

Now I regret sitting down during Everybody knows, as clearly there were piss poor fans there.

NEIL:

Please play the Warfield again, and charge $30 a ticket so you don't get uptight losers in your audience who add nothing to the experience.

I want a show with pot smoking booze drinking ass shaking hippies, not some suburban douchebags!

 
At 12/11/2007 09:47:00 PM, Anonymous LAK said...

Am I really arguing with someone about dancing at a Neil Young Concert for a plugged in set? Is that really possible? Did I really go to a show where Neil crushed a Everybody Knows and a Cortez and nobody danced? Has the world really come to this?

 
At 12/12/2007 09:21:00 PM, Blogger Ben said...

I'd just like to add that there isn't really a difference in how well you can see if it's everybody standing vs. everybody sitting.

 
At 12/14/2007 06:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BULLSHIT

 
At 12/14/2007 10:31:00 AM, Anonymous LAK said...

Like I said, stumpy legs.

 
At 12/18/2007 10:35:00 PM, Anonymous brahmdass said...

The performers WANT you to dance. They get off on the excitement of the crowd and it feeds their energy. Can you imagine Neil sitting through a Neil Young concert? I don't think so. I'm almost 60 and have been seeing Neil since the Fillmore in 1970. I danced then, I danced Sunday at the UP Theatre, and I intend to keep dancing.
You pay your money for the privilege of being part of this live experience. The seat and the floor space is yours to do with as you wish. It is not against the rules to dance. If it was it wouldn't be allowed. But, when did we ever abide by the rules anyway?

 
At 12/20/2007 04:02:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I'm at the 12/19 show last night in NYC (simply awesone). The second half of No Hidden Path, 2 people in the orchestra stand up. They were the only people standing. They were obstrcuting the view of easily 100 people, including the lady in the wheelchair in front of me. Sure, they paid their money and have the "right" to do whatever they want in their little space. That still doesn't change the fact that they viewed whatever incremental enjoyment they derived from standing as more important than the impact on the others around them. It's simply inconsiderate. If that's fine by you, then dance on my friends.

It should be a matter of common sense. Go ahead and stand up. If nobody folllows suit, then take a hint and sit the f*ck down. These things aren't really all that complicated.

 
At 8/22/2008 07:08:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok I just went to the concert in Zurich yesterday after I saw him already a few weeks ago in Germany. Germany was great because they were no seats at all like it should be at a rock concert. yesterday in zurich the whole arena was seated. During the first song a bunch of people started moving to the front and more and more followed them. Of course all the fancy people who paid sitting in the front had to stand up to because they couldnt see anything no more. And then Neil said: its great to be back and to see you here in the front. pointed to the people staying in the front.

He really kicked everyones ass who wanted to sit comfortoble in their seat. Fuck this is a rock n roll show. Pussys can stay at home and watch it on dvd. like he sings: hey hey my my rock n roll will never die. Go to a concert where you are not allowed to stand, dance, sing along, get drunk, just have fun and rock n roll will be dead sooner as you may think.

But you know what, thats maybe why american bands like to play in europe that much.

 
At 9/05/2008 09:12:00 PM, Anonymous lavender1960 said...

Well I am a fan of some bands where sitting down just doesn't make sense, because the music moves one and that is part of the experience of seeing that band so maybe you have to do your research about the band if you have a problem standing and dancing and I'm an old broad, not some kid.

My first U2 concert, it wasn't even an option to sit down, you'd have been looked upon as a pariah. I also find UK audiences have far more stamina and think sitting down is for wusses.

I just went to see Maroon 5. I am sorry it is a dance band in essence, well better than just a dance band but still, and about 90 per cent of the audience agreed. The problem is you have people winning tickets from radio stations or given the tickets or people there to see the opening act, ie people who are not real fans. Until venues tell me I can't dance I will. Now if 90 per cent of the venue is sitting, will I dance no but I've only been to one concert where it was confused as to the etiquette.

And I also know a lot of bands get pissed off if you aren't up dancing or at least standing, they think they aren't doing their job otherwise and they feed off the energy of the crowd - the more fun you are having the more energy they get and so on and so on. Of course a lot of venues have stand only floors and maybe more should.

In recent memory the only concerts I have sat fully for were by Crowded House because they don't do rock or dance music per se, more ballady stuff.

No one was sitting for Foo Fighters at Virgin Fest. They had a special area for physically challenged folks. So I just prepare to dance and stand and when six tall guys were standing in front of me at the Killers, I just did a lot of bob and weave, of course there was no sitting at that concert anyway, GA!

 
At 9/05/2008 09:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PS. In my crowd of friends, we say, you just want to sit and listen to the music, stay home, sit on your couch and listen to it on your stereo. Or rent a concert DVD.

You want the whole concert experience, including dancing and hooting and hollering, come on down and be prepared to stay off your butt.

If you are a true fan of a band that rocks.

 
At 9/12/2008 11:26:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, now I know this thread is old but I want to put my two cents in. Personally, I hate it when a venue is nothing but seats, because I personally like to stand, move around and dance. On the other hand....I get tired and want to sit. But, I would still prefer no seats. Thats why I'm so excited for this tour because there is GA. Now, for the guy with the 5'2 wife...I'm a 5'2 woman myself, and you can see MUCH better if everyone is sitting. I thought I would make that clear since some douchebag tried to argue with you about that.

 
At 10/06/2008 04:00:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

WELL... for what it's worth here's my two cents worth :)

If you go to a rock concert and get uptight about people standing and "rocking" you are in the wrong place... IT'S NOT THE SYMPHONY OR OPERA OR THEATRE!!

Real fans, and people who want to "rock" at a rock concert will usually try to get up close... so if you want to sit, there are lots of sections that are way up in the nosebleeds and way at the back where people rarely stand for the entire show...

I just turned 50 this year and i still won't go to a concert unless I can get seats right down in front of the stage so that I can dance and rock to the music...

I'm sorry for people that can't physically handle the standing... but that's life... and when you can't do something anymore it's not right to dis' others because they still can...

"KEEP ON ROCKIN' IN THE FREE WORLD..."

Cam

 
At 10/25/2008 08:21:00 PM, Anonymous s young said...

I'm 52 and Neil is 62, theres not a lot of time left...I'm going to dance like nobody is watching!

 
At 11/01/2008 01:06:00 AM, Blogger Lawrence said...

This is to Rockman: I am probably about your age based upon your going to 1000's of concerts since the early 70's. My first concert was to see Mott the Hoople in 1973, with some "unknown" band called Queen as the opening act. Anyhow, I like to sit for many concerts. Sure, I could still stand or sit for as long as it takes. However, when people have paid for reserved seats and want to sit, and you want to stand and jump around in front of them, they have a right to complain. Why don't the people who want to stand go on the floor where the general admission is. You could also go dance in the back where you wouldn't block the seater's view. If you want to get up and dance, do it behind the seated folks. Yes, as you said, one would have to stand up to throw a punch. I just may be that guy. Why piss off people who came to sit and see a show? If someone does punch you for being rude, just remember you asked for it.

 
At 11/07/2008 12:17:00 PM, Blogger Peter said...

NEIL YOUNG. Go ahead and stand up. Do you think he wants to look out into the audience and see a bunch of people half asleep? "Respect the people who want to stay seated"? What about respecting the people who want to stand up! I had this problem in Spokane. I was asked to sit down and I said to the people behind me, "Sorry, I'm here to see Neil and I'm going to stand up. Maybe we all should stand up." And guess what? People started standing and dancing! WooHoo!!!!!

 
At 12/07/2008 04:08:00 PM, Anonymous Dancing Hillbilly said...

I have to dance ... it's my religion! I thought it was seriously lame of Neil to make a bunch of rules for his theater shows ... we were even told that if we got up to go potty we wouldn't be let back to our seats until half time. $175 seats with no bathroom access????

Music is for dancing and rock and roll is dance music. I think if you go to a rock show, you should be prepared for people to be dancing, standing, hooting, hollering, drinking, drugging and smoking. If you can't tolerate that, you shouldn't go to a rock show. Nothing is more lame than a rock show where people sit down, except when the sitters want to impose their lameness on you!

Having gone to hundreds of concerts, I've had problems with dancing only four times, at CSN in Richmond, Virginia, a Little Feat / Allman Brothers show in St. Louis, at a North Mississippi Allstars / Allman Brothers show in N.H. and a Levon Helm / Phil Lesh show at the same lame place in N.H. In every instance the people wanting me to sit were rude, demanding and went and got security. In every instance I continued to dance and the security did nothing. I will never be told I have to sit down at a show and can't dance ... it is never printed on one of the tickets as a policy, so dancing is always allowed!

The most recent Neil tour is cool because the floor is general admission and open for dancing. However, the floor seats sell out, so be forewarned: I will be dancing in front of the seat I bought!

 
At 1/24/2009 06:24:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well I will be on the lawn section for the melb show, no seats! and Ill be standing up and rocking out.

This is a rock concert people, not an opera

 
At 1/25/2009 10:33:00 PM, Anonymous Paul Busch said...

Hola...I have been going to gigs in New York and all over the USA until 1984...when I left and moved to Australia...and here I am, an American/Australian who loves to dance at concerts.
Why? Rock n Roll was made to dance to. People should look back at old concert footage and check it out.

Ticket prices are high, promoters and venues suck, and due to the high dollar the provelged folks get to go. Neil has a older demographic and someone tried to explain to me that is why people are sitting. I don't buy it as I am 52 and dance like a frog in a blender and love to feel the muisc flow thru my veins.

Sydney audiences do not dance. I am normally considerate in smaller venues and move to the side (State Theatre) or at The Metro dance upstairs where there is room. But if you are seeing a legend, who comes out on stage rocking and singing about LOVE and it is a Saturday night (normally the night when the BEST gigs take place) you have to put something of yourself into the show.
It is not a movie..it is a rock conert as I explained to the dude in the 4th row who I thought was going to use violence on me.
Peace and Love people....

I explained I was in the second row and if had stayed in my seat I would have the same problem he had...of not being able to see.

Music is going to effect everyone differently and some people just don't dance. But some artists need and desire, well damn, most artists want and desire that instant feedback. You can listen to the records at home.

Elvis Costello played the State Theatre a few years ago and after 45 minutes he walked off and brought the lights up like the gig was over. Crowd went crazy, he came back after 10 minutes or so, and everyone rushed the stage or stood up.
He said, That's better.

And of course it was as he played for another 2 hours.

The gig in Sydney started off like he was on fire and ready to go. The crowd failed to live up to their side of the bargain. Rock and roll is not a complete spectator sport....unless you are in Sydney.

Long Live Rock...I need it everyday.

Enjoy Australia Day All

 
At 8/07/2012 10:20:00 PM, Anonymous Johan said...

Someone up the page had a good point. Neil and the horse are pretty cool guys but there not so good looking that you have to stare them the whole time. If you don't want to stand and you don't want to admire the person's ass in front of you then just check out some other people or gaze into your partner's eyes or close them and drift away on the rockin tunes. At Roger Waters' show maybe but with NY you're not going to miss that much by having your view blocked.

 

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"It's all illusion anyway."

Propaganda = Mind Control
Brighter Planet's 350 Challenge
Be The Rain, Be The Change

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the truth will set you free
This Machine Kills Fascists


war is not the answer

"greed is NOT good"
Occupy the Music

Hey Big Brother!
Stop Spying On Us!
Civic Duty Is Not Terrorism

The Achilles Heel
#NullifyNSA
Orwell (and Grandpa) Was Right

Wake up!
"consciousness is near"
What's So Funny About
Peace, Love, & Understanding & Music?

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