A Comment Regarding Comments on Thrasher's Wheat
In recent years, we have noticed a rather dramatic drop off in comments here on Thrasher's Wheat.
During our peak years, we were consistently hitting ~200+ comments per day?!
But nowadays Clancy can't even sing...
We have attributed this decline in comments to a number of factors. Certainly, the dreaded "Facebook effect" is a factor where much chatter happens on various Neil Young pages like Rusties On Facebook.
Another factor has been Thrasher's Wheat being suspended by Facebook, leading to a significant drop in traffic.
Then of course there is the shift to mobile devices and short attention spans. Heck, how does one type on those tiny little keyboards anyway?!
And some might even argue that maybe Neil's music hasn't been revving up folks like those divisive -- yet absolutely essential - works such as the "Be The Change Trilogy": Greendale, Living With War and Fork in the Road. Of course, we would argue that it doesn't get much more divisive -- yet inspirationally relevant -- than The Monsanto Years effort.
But we digress, as usual.
So for some time, we have been getting reports that folks have been unable to comment on TW for one reason or another. We have never really had a chance to investigate what might be going. We just attributed it to part of that big giant conspiracy of the ongoing clampdown as The Big Shift approaches.
OK, so finally we come to our point.
If you are using a mobile device to read and comment on TW, we definitely have a problem.
So here's what you need to do to comment on TW while using a mobile device. You need to switch to the "Web Version" view.
This "Web Version" view selection is located at the bottom of each post as highlighted above. Selecting "Web Version" view will open the comment box -- which apparently does not appear in the mobile view for some strange, nefarious reason. What's up with that Big Brothers Markie Z., Billy G., Larry P. & Sergey B.???
So happy commenting! Like a fresh brewed organic, GMO-free cup of coffee each morning, we always enjoy harvesting a nice crop of comments.
As we so often say, Neil fans (& TW readers) are some of the most astute & knowledgeable music lovers in the world and we're honored to have all of you out there as a regular readers. We love all of you. (Even you, too...)
peace
ps - and if you ever wonder why we are very serious about comments here at TW, check this in your infinite spare time when you don't have anything better to do...
by thrasher@PermaLink: 2/28/2016 06:49:00 PM
38 comments
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38 Comments:
Thrasher/ette,
I've never had any trouble commenting here, not in a long time. But I also almost never come on this site on a mobile device. I don't like using 'em for that any serious browsing. You're tight that there's been a drop-off, though. I'm probably one of the ones who's around less than he used to be, but I do remember a few years ago when things were more exciting here. It was around the time of Archives I and FITR. A lot was going on in Neil Land at the time. I miss some of the vibrancy. On the other hand, and I don't want this to be construed as my questioning free speech or anything, but… sometimes, it's nice not to have some of the less conducive stuff clogging up space here. It's like anywhere online: there's the genuinely good discussion/debate, and then there's the nonsense that goes around in circles and never gets anywhere. If some people have gotten tired of playing games (on a Neil Young fan blog of all places) and have moved on, I say "don't the door hit ya…." Sometimes a little more peace in the valley is not a bad thing. In other words, if there's a good side or silver lining to the decreased traffic, it's that at least there's also less in the way of trolling and other extraneous comments that aren't looking for genuine conversation.
Sadly, I think the recent lack of comments and traffic largely boils down to:
"there's very few of us left my friend
from the days that used to be"
The passionate fan base is dwindling as evidenced by his virtually nonexistent album/cd/digital/pono sales. The traffic around the time of "The Monsanto Years" was decent, but most of the comments were negative (including mine). Lord, what a poorly conceived and executed album--sorry, I couldn't resist! To me, it was Neil's sloppiest, artistically cynical and yes, passionless and least inspired work of recent memory. Why didn't he care enough to even try? An extra day or two working on the lyrics and vocals could have led to a very good piece of work, but that was not to be. He was just "going for easy headlines" by naming big companies.
Of course, in the wake of that colossal failure, Neil delivered one of his all-time great tours in my opinion, so who am I to complain?
Let's hope "us" hardcore fans remain engaged, and let's also hope that his next album is more of a passionate fully realized work. However, with a title like "Earth" I'm fearing the worst. I swear, if he whistles on this album I may just have to.....
Sorry for my mostly honest (though exaggerated) hostility--
Take my advice
don't listen to me
Not to repeat ourselves all over again, but...
... as we so often say, Neil fans (& TW readers) are some of the most astute & knowledgeable music lovers in the world and we're honored to have all of you out there as a regular readers.
Pretty much exactly as you say Ian -- a blessing and a curse. Yes, we're relieved that the troll crowd seems to have moved along to other fun and games. But so have many of our favorite long time commenters and their witty, sharp insights have moved along as well, and we miss them.
The days that used to be indeed. But we adapt and move onward.
On a more positive note, that makes each comment more valuable and we're finally the time to actually respond to many of the comments. In the days that used to be we were simply unable to cope with the volume, much less to give a careful reply.
a blessing and a curse...
blessed
Posting from a mobile device with no issues here.
Posting from a HTC phone with no troubles. Keep up the good work chaps and thank you for your dedication. I don't often comment these days but do read with interest.
Sooner or later we all get old.....the demise of BA a few years back was the first sign plus we can't ignore the drop in quality of his recorded out put. It's been love or leave him and after many years I'm afraid I've left him. But make no mistake On The Beach, Goldrush, TNTN, TFA & a few others remain essential records. He's always made sloppy records look at his drawn lyrics on TFA but this usually came with the music. The songs are no longer there. I admire all of you here but let's not kid ourselves that the last 20 years has been a disappointment.
I spent lots of £s in Archives 1 which was just a mess apart from the book - Neils always moves which is great but at what cost?
Thrasher, one thing that has always perplexed me about your site is the lack of polls. If you want to generate more comments, my humble suggestion is to have more polls, especially when things are otherwise quiet in the world of Neil. Regardless of what comes out on top (that's not the point!), polls can generate an interesting discussion because there are so many different opinions of Neil's music.
Neil's body of work is so prolific and varied that there are an endless number of topics you could poll: favourite CH album, best producer, favourite 90's album, best tour, favourite banjo song, etc, etc. In fact, I'm sure even as silly a poll as 'favourite song beginning with the letter A' could provoke some interesting comments (I suspect After the Gold Rush would win, but I'm sure Ambulance Blues and Albuquerque would give it some competition).
Anyway, just something to consider..
Good Morning to TW! I don't usually post, but I do check in regularly. Despite the feeling we would all like to have "infinite time" unfortunately most do not have that luxury. With more and more email, that precious time can be quickly consumed in so many useless ways, which is one reason I think there is less interaction than there once was here.
I also think it's FB's pull, as you note, along with loosing your page there. I hope that glitch can be positively resolved.
Meanwhile, I love what you do, and always look forward to my morning missives.
And hey, tonight we are all going to be watching RNS, so that will give us a little wheat to thrash tomorrow!
With love,
Karen
Guys, I rarely comment but needed to say keep up the good work. All the way from Birmingham, UK
Slough, UK, here!
Hmmmm.....lots could be said....but should lots be said? I will throw out a strange theory as to Neil's aging fan base.....when he split with Peggy, it was an earthquake metaphorically and I think a lot of long time fans quietly moved on....maybe not consciously but they moved on nonetheless....combine that with sub-par albums and songs = here we are in the years.....PP was the last album I bought.....sigh
Thanks for the feedback. Appreciated.
@Nick - Good suggestion on polls. Nice to know folks like them. Yes, lots of interesting topics and possibilities.
Right now, we're curious on different the setlists in Europe will be from 2015.
@Jonathan - yes, we agree that the split caused some splits.
Of course the divorce had an impact but the records released have shown a drop in quality well before that. We can't make judgements about the split but some of the photos with Ms Hannah are a shock - but hey look at ole Nash finds a new lady at 74!
Stills next with Crosby and we could have the 4 Way Split Doom Tour the ex-wives tour.
I've noticed Pegi's career is in limbo ?
I've been seen as one of the more negative voices but for me it's only about the quality of the music - and there my argument ends. The last truly great record ? The poll starts here....and I mean the record you return to and play.
Thanks TW as ever your patience with my negativity is appreciated.
Nick - don't forget Alabama!
Yes Thrasher, the long litany of long lost lovers from the site has diminished the banter here on topics and responses to opinion, both for and against the muse of the main man Neil. I myself share your nostalgia for Doc, MNOTR, Matt L, Big ol Rig, Sandy and many others whom I have forgotten names but not their contributions to threads past. Neil's recent CD's have hit and missed with even the most faithful, yours truly among them at times which has curbed enthusiasm and thus the attention to your posts. It's a long ride into the sunset and the fork in the road that Neil has taken. I believe in his convictions 100% and admire his energy to educate a fallen world on it's environmental ambivalence, but that hasn't transpired into my rally around the music which I don't respond to. That doesn't mean it isn't good, it only means it doesn't mean that much to me, but still does not diminish my admiration for him as an artist or as a human. He has my respect and my appreciation for bringing much joy and enlightenment to me through his music and his lyrics, as well as his integrity to what he believes in for himself and his career. I would be less of myself without my experiences with his music and his movement since I came to know who he was off the old solid state radio in my folks kitchen listening to Heart of Gold when I was 10. That's a half century almost of a damn good thing. And there's still more I can investigate cause I ain't heard it all yet!
So keep on blogging til the power goes out Thrasher we're still here with ya!
Andy, great is a relative term, but the albums of "recent" vintage that I still play a few times a year are:
Silver and Gold
Greendale
Prairie Wind
Living with War (I love "Flags of Freedom" and "Families" and others too)
LeNoise
Psych Pill (once or twice)
Storytone (sorry, as previously mentioned it's taken on some resonance for me)
Of the 7 albums listed, the only one that I consider truly an acquired taste is Storytone. To me, the others range from solid to very good in terms of concept, lyrics and music.
Take my advice
don't listen to me
'Til the morning comes, from Rome, Italy.
Using my Android....
'Til the morning comes, from Rome, Italy.
Using my Android....
Hello
I am a long time reader of wheat. More than 10 years. I would just like to add one other potential reason for the drop off in comments.
But first, history. I was born in 1958. My mother bought Nowhere,Goldrush and Harvest upon their release. I saw NY harvest live 1972 at Massey Hall Toronto. So all in all I have been listening to NY for about 47 years.
I have all NY in album form, CD form and any remastered re-release.
I have seen him live 20+ times.
I am not pleased with his recent fanatical, I can do anything or say anything because I am an established artist and I now do not need the money.
He is losing me if not already lost me. He has not hit my platter for six months and the longer it goes, the easier it is.
He appears not to be a happy man. When was the last time you saw that funny little Neil grin?
"just sayin"
PS the fork in the anger road started with Geffen!
I think this. It is not the lyrics. It is not the melodies. It is not that he try to help us save the world.
It is that he is getting old. You can hear it in his voice. The sound of Neil is not magic like it was before.
Maybe he, (well he don't care and I love him for that). But maybe he need to record his stuff with a second thought these days.
Maybe he need to sing with a darker voice. Maybe do, against his will, more overdubs.
I think The Montzano Years is a brilliant gathering of songs. The Promise... is very good. I think Neil has many funny little Neil grin
together with those youngsters. But it was not a good recording. I played with my band, "New day for love". And it got a fantastic energy, and you just want to play it for 10 minutes more. Lyric is good!!! But on the record TMY, it sounds like an old don
quijote. And, well its cool if you love him, like I do. But some of you lose it. And I think its because it does not sound cool for you.
Maybe he need to use his age in the sound. I think he did in Storytone, but you did not like the disney. I did, but you can't count on me.
The Freak, Oslo
Regarding the drop in comments, I thinks it boils down to the fact that Neil does not make as many new fans as in the 90's, and they're not on TW anyway. It would take Archives Vol. 2 to wake us old geezers - or maybe we are just going gentle into that good night, something Neil is clearly not ready to do.
Anyway the perceived unevenness of his latest output does not bother me one bit : when I play Neil it's always on shuffle mode, and every new album, every quality bootleg or Performance Series concert is another piece of this ever expanding universe in which I immerse myself every night, never experiencing quite the same sensations twice. Many times some freak "Mirrorball" wave washed me upon the shores of "Fork" or "Greendale" and I assure you that every time I discovered something wonderful there in the sand.
I must go - Trans is on ! Greetings from France and please pardon my Shakey English ;)
the 2007-2008 tour is really starting to look like the last great tour Neil put together - in my opinion. I don't want to take away the excitement form the POTR shows or the gems he pulled out, etc. But that last tour with Ben Keith & Rosas & when Ralphie was on drums was simply the top of the mountain....for me at least. We got a true acoustic set & a true electric set every night. Pegi & Anthony Crawford singing backup.....Neil was 'only' 62-63.....where is Trunk Show?
Jonathan said: the 2007-2008 tour is really starting to look like the last great tour Neil put together - in my opinion. I don't want to take away the excitement form the POTR shows or the gems he pulled out, etc. But that last tour with Ben Keith & Rosas & when Ralphie was on drums was simply the top of the mountain....for me at least. We got a true acoustic set & a true electric set every night. Pegi & Anthony Crawford singing backup.....Neil was 'only' 62-63.....where is Trunk Show?
__________________________________________________
I was completely underwhelmed with the Chrome Dreams tour, mostly because of the poor quality of the Chrome Dreams stuff, but primarily I kind of felt that Neil was going through the motions. I saw him at Constitution Hall in DC and walked out afterwards with a very quiet crowd collectively shrugging our shoulders.
Spirit Road, The Believer, No Hidden Path, etc...are just weak songs in my opinion, and there wasn't anything or anyone pushing Neil on guitar. Boring electric set...
The POTR tour last year hit all the right notes for me. I guess I like to see and hear Neil being pushed creatively and challenged musically. The shows were fresh and exciting, unlike his recent forays with Crazy Horse (and their remnants).
As with all things Neil, every song, concert and album yields the full spectrum of opinions--it's plowing time again..
Take my advice
don't listen to me
Hi to Thrasher.Appreciate your posts about everything Neil.He's coming to Ireland in June.And he's always good live.Be great to see him again.
This comment has been removed by the author.
He's a couple more speculations:
1. Neil's been less active the past two years, seems like he's downshifted his activity hopefully its temporary. It coincides with his break-up w Pegi and his connecting with Daryl Hannah but who knows if there's a connection there … but for the first time in year's there's long spells where nothing is really happening so its harder to keep attention and interesting dialog going …
2. Perhaps its just cyclical … Neil's twists and turns have left many a fan in the ditch … maybe this is one of those ebbs in the fan base or in the whole journey … history tells us ebbs are followed by huge flows as Neil comes back better and stronger
-- Reading through the thread above seems like zero consensus about which tours and albums were good or bad … but seems like fans will never pass up an opportunity to complain which, after all, is a hallmark of Neil's knowledgeable, demanding, and perfectionistic fan base
Good thoughts from everyone here. I would defend Chrome Dreams II (talking about the album here, not necessarily the tour as I can't speak to that). The breadth of the material on that album keeps me coming back to it, and I'm not sure he's topped it since. No Hidden Path, for me, is one of Neil's most inspired and inspiring creations of recent years. Likewise The Way, which remains unique in his catalogue to my knowledge. That album was/is complete in the same way that I feel Storytone is thematically and structurally complete--one of Neil's most structurally complete in a while. Le Noise has me coming back, too, as do parts of Psychedelic Pill. Pill gets a lot of praise, some of it quite justified, and I'd just add, as to my comments about Neil's albums being structurally complete (or not), when it's a traditional Crazy Horse record, the idea of structure is much looser in the first place.
The suggestion about polling is interesting; I remember a few from over the years. But if we're going to ask "Which was Neil's last great album that you keep returning to and listening to?", I think we should contextualize it with some other questions: how often do listen to an album from beginning to end these days? How many albums in the history of recorded music can we say that we would never skip a single track when listening to? Off hand I'm not sure I can think of a single album where there aren't some tracks I prefer to others? (Maybe Bowie's Blackstar to pull in something from left field; every number on that is a highlight for me.) I can enjoy Harvest without ever hearing "Alabama", and you can quote me on that. The point is, what's a fair standard to which to hold new albums? I think that's one question worth probing here.
Also, I have to say I'm not sensing that Neil is more outspoken or bold now than he ever was. Granted it helps that he and I likely have a certain degree of ideological alignment, but he's always said and done what he darned well pleased. Who wanted him to sing through a Vocoder in '83 or tour as The Shocking Pinks? And need I even comment about his hardcore country period and infamously overinflated remarks about Ronald Reagan? More recently--relatively speaking--how many people did he annoy with "Let's Roll"? [A song I'm not even sure I'm supposed to mention to fellow Neil Nuts.] Let him say and do what he wants. He is the artist, after all, and part of it is just a matter of checking the degree to which we identify with the artist and balancing that with some focus on the art itself, as I've suggested in previous postings. If anything, there's little fundamental difference in how NY operates. The difference is that, unlike when he was new, he now has incredible resources at his disposal and a strong fan following. He's probably more able to do certain things now than he was thirty or forty years ago, but it's the same basic "come along for the ride or get out of the way" attitude that he seems to have always operated under. I couldn't possibly comment about the man's personal happiness, but just because he's now in protest music mode, that doesn't mean he's unhappy as a person. In fact, it maybe that some folk singers are never happier than when they have something to protest. At the same time, I imagine that just like LWW, he'll get it out of his system eventually and move on. Maybe after election season?
fair points all around.....I too was at the Constitution Hall shows in 2007 Ian.....row #1.....maybe that's why I hold that tour as being so special.....but I also love CDII.....fantastic album in my opinion.....
My mission for the week will be to re-visit Chrome Dreams II.
I think I was initially irked with it due to inconsistent sound and performance quality, and on an idiosyncratic note, it bothered me that it was named Chrome Dreams II. Technically there's never been a Chrome Dreams!!!
Also, the "great" Neil song that I never even remotely liked in any incarnation is "Ordinary People" and if memory serves, the version on CDII really struck me as terrible.
My mind is open though, and to me most "old" Neil albums find a way to grow on me when pulling them out of the dustbin.
Take my advice
don't listen to me
To Topanga....that bin might be full!
Hey Andy, even if the dustbin may be full (which it isn't), there's still so much more out in the light of day (and night)...
Take my advice
don't listen to me
no need to overanalyze. it boils down to "not that many people give a shit about neil young anymore".
and why should they?
@Topanga Daze--
Yeah, the title "Chrome Dreams II" is a little odd. Potentially overly self-referential and I'm not sure it has anything to do with the songs themselves, but I'm not letting it spoil an otherwise quite enjoyable (for me) album. It has its quirks. Ordinary People would be the longest, most drawn-out of those quirks. However, I've been saying for a while now that I prefer the order of the verses on the CDII version to the live Bluenotes recordings (and one acoustic version) that I've heard. Granted that I heard the CDII version first, so I could be prejudiced. I also find the mix, on that track and on the album in general, to be fairly balanced, albeit with Neil's usual penchant for heavy bass and drums and the electric tracks (No Hidden Path, Spirit Road, Dirty Old Man) come with a coating of muddy grunge. For Ordinary People in particular, I thought the band sounded fantastic, Neil's solos (and the horn parts) nicely sculpted, and the conclusion where the music sort of dissolves into itself very cool. That recording is almost like a short film in audio form to me.
I'm interested in your impression if you do decide to reacquaint with CDII. I've long thought it more even than Prairie Wind, though I may be tarred and feathered for that one.
Wow, you folks never cease to amaze?!
Well, no sooner we observe the decline in comments here on Thrasher's Wheat over the years, than lo and behold?!
Of course, it's never been about quantity... more a search for quality, i.e. The Wheat. Afterall, who needs comments that are nothing but chaff? You guys never cease to amaze us with your insights, passions and musings.
So on to the latest Comment of the Moment on "Neil Young Discusses New Album With Promise of the Real" from Ian:
http://neilyoungnews.thrasherswheat.org/2016/03/comment-of-moment-neil-young-discusses.html
Thanks to all!
Well, I listened to Chrome Dreams II (two times, borrowing from the title) this weekend. Sorry to say, I still don't like it much. It just never takes off and strikes me as extremely stilted and boring. Boring is not a word I use lightly, and it applies to very few (if any) of Neil's other albums.
Quickly summarizing:
*The acoustic tunes are quite generic and sappy without any "spark" of mystery.
The "choir" affect on several tunes is also oddly jarring and "jokey" and "hokey" to me.
*The electric tunes are "sludgy" and lack any semblance of melodic groove. Combined with largely banal and forced lyrics, they're just stilted songs to me.
**I'm still amazed at how much I dislike "Ordinary People" from beginning to end. There's nothing I can say that's even remotely positive about it. Lyrically, it's absurdly bad. How many times can he say "people" or "factory" trying in vain to say something of significance? It's all so forced, and the music is just dull as well. Also, what kind of vocals are at play? Is it reverb or echo, or what? Is Neil singing a duet with himself? I just don't get the edit of the song. I don't get any of it...
***On a semi-positive note, "Spirit Road" sounded a little better than I remembered it, and "Ever After" sort of has a simple grace to it that I could learn to like.
I'm going to listen one or two more times though, still hoping for some it to seep into my soul where most of Neil's music resides...
Sorry, not trying to be Mr. Negative Man at all..
Take my advice
don't listen to me
@All - thanks for so many deeply felt and heartfelt comments.
@TopangaD. - this note's for you, too. Of course, we respect your thoughts and opinions. As much as we'd like to take your handle lyric literally, we find it hard to take your advice and still listen to you.
All of that aside, let us ask you a question. We gently inquire... do you truly understand the concept of "unconditional love". As in, are you experienced? Because we think that some comments have the "tone" of those who have yet to break on through to other side of "unconditional love".
Take a chance. A chance. A chance on unconditional love...
Thrash,
Ah yes, unconditional love, a concept generally reserved for family and select friends and lovers. My version of unconditional love involves always being there in good times and bad, but surrounded with a strong measure of honesty. Honest opinions, honest questions and answers.
"How can you run when you know?"
"Is it strange I should change?"
Our hero has been asking questions from day one, though very rarely answering them. Therein lies one of his greatest strengths as an artist. Our answers change daily, but the questions remain valid.
On balance, I think the vast majority of my posts have been positive and supportive of all things Neil. Love and only love eventually becomes unsustainable; it is on the face of it dishonest. We all have our warts, and they must be revealed at times...
So, perhaps I haven't truly broken on through to the other side, but I'm satisfied with the side I'm on. I don't always need to be on the side that's winning; sometimes I learn more from losing...
Take my advice
don't listen to me
@TopangaD - thanks for sharing this. We were going out on a limb with the probe.
This is about as personal as we can get on the topic and really prefer not to venture too deep on the subject, content to obliquely reference.
That said, obviously for us, "unconditional love" is the ultimate litmus test for us and other Neil fans. It's sort of either you get or you don't.
Words can't really adequately cover the subject, while music can. funny.
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