Donald Trump Uses 3 Neil Young Songs At Mount Rushmore Event
Donald Trump & Neil Young
Neil Young has again expressed his strong opposition to Donald Trump's use of his music. (Thanks Timmo & HtH!)
Neil Young objected to the use of his music after President Donald Trump’s event at Mount Rushmore yesterday, siding with Lakota Sioux who have long claimed the land as their own in violation of an 1868 treaty with the U.S. government. Trump used 3 Neil Young songs at the July 3 Mount Rushmore Event: “Rockin In The Free World” (2X, before and after), “Like a Hurricane”and “Cowgirl in the Sand”.
“This is NOT ok with me…” Neil Young re-tweeted footage from the Trump event in which “Rockin In The Free World” was playing.
A tweet with a video of “Like a Hurricane” played before Trump took the stage. Young’s “Cowgirl in the Sand” was also heard later at the rally.
Young criticized Trump‘s leadership of the U.S. in a lyrical rewrite of his 2006 track “Lookin’ for a Leader” during Porch Session earlier this week.
“Rockin’ In the Free World” was also played after Trump finished his speech at Mount Rushmore.
In May, when U.S. President Donald Trump visited a Ford plant in Ypsilanti, Michigan, Neil Young's song “Devil’s Sidewalk” was played at the factory before hand.
Also, NASA Played Neil Young's "Rockin' In The Free World" Prior to SpaceX Launch at end of May.
Neil Young News: NASA Plays Neil Young's "Rockin' In The Free World" Prior to SpaceX Launch
— ThrashersWheat (@ThrashersWheat) May 31, 2020
See https://t.co/anCjgoQjEr
☮️♥️@NeilYoungNYA pic.twitter.com/ppUtpp4SLQ
In 2019, US President Trump Has Been Listening to New Neil Young & Crazy Horse Album "COLORADO" (Kiddingly)
Neil Young News: US President Trump Has Been Listening to New Neil Young & Crazy Horse Album "COLORADO"
— ThrashersWheat (@ThrashersWheat) October 24, 2019
See https://t.co/ECn4fpmDlQ
-@NeilYoungNYA @CrazyHorse4HOF @nilslofgren #CrazyHorse4HOF @realDonaldTrump pic.twitter.com/28c8mKOJQW
And, Donnie, Ronnie & Neil + Merry: Southern Man and The Un-Civil Wars of Donald Trump & Neil Young or Rebels with Causes w/ Northern Man.
Donnie, Ronnie & Neil + Merry: Southern Man and The Un-Civil Wars of Donald Trump & Neil Young or Rebels with Causes w/ Northern Man
— ThrashersWheat (@ThrashersWheat) June 4, 2020
See https://t.co/kWVSBe9ZK9
☮️♥️@NeilYoungNYA @dhlovelife @drivebytruckers pic.twitter.com/WsoYYWPTVX
Back in 2015, Neil Young to Donald Trump: This Note is NOT for You!.
"We got a thousand points of light
— ThrashersWheat (@ThrashersWheat) March 2, 2019
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand "
See "Neil Young to Donald Trump: This note is NOT for you!" https://t.co/NwF5dGmPsm …@Neilyoung @NeilYoungNYA @SharryWilson @realDonaldTrump pic.twitter.com/rrQHXPuwl7
Neil Young's "Rockin' in the Free World" played for President Trump's arrival @CPAC 2019 conference this morning.@Neilyoung @NeilYoungNYA @rustradio @neilyounglyrics @SharryWilson https://t.co/SNseKBDQVX
— ThrashersWheat (@ThrashersWheat) March 2, 2019
FWIW: "There's something happening here. What it is, ain't exactly clear"
Labels: donald trump, neil young, song
by thrasher@PermaLink: 7/04/2020 10:02:00 AM
29 comments
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29 Comments:
I hate Trump. I love Neil.
The reality is that Neil sells his songs and puts them out in the world, and they are going to interpreted in different ways and used in different ways. That is life. Neil can make his feelings about Trump known. But frankly, anyone who cares how Neil feels knows how Neil feels,
It’s not important. The less said about it the less attention Trump gets.
ok, sure, we hear you. but ...
are you suggesting we ignore the reality that Donald trump has been using his songs repeatedly for years?
That Trump kicked off his campaign with RIFTW?
That Trump continues to use neil's music at event after event?
Trump visited a Ford plant w/ Greendale song “Devil’s Sidewalk” ?
NASA Played Neil Young's "Rockin' In The Free World" Prior to SpaceX Launch at end of May w/ Trump arriving?
If you choose to ignore these coincidences, that's fine w/ us. However, we obviously find this all to be more than mere coincidences and highly significant.
Neil's modification of lyrics to “Lookin’ for a Leader” during Porch Session earlier this week. Playing Campaigner? hello?
There has always been something very big about neil's music and politicians going back to neil naming Nixon on OHIO w/ CSNY. That type of thing had never happened w/ popular music evr before. Neil broke a rule and to some extent, he's been punished ever since.
we refuse to bow to the thought police here @ TW. never.
you, sir/mam, can choose to die on your knees as a slave, if you wish.
however, we will choose to die on our feet fighting for our freedoms.
"Give me liberty or give me death" - ~~ Patrick Henry
happy 4th
peace
(off topic)...Watching Carrie Snodgrass today in a
'The Virgian' episode called Crime Wave in Buffalo Springs.....
Happy 4th Thrasher and to all you Wheats
Keep on Rocking in the Free World!
Shameless--but then, we knew that about #45. I'm morbidly curious, however, to understand the pathology of his apparent fixation on Neil. I mean, wtf--digging up a relatively (to non-Rusties) obscure track like Devil's Sidewalk is an especially weird choice. If Trump (or, much more likely, his campaign minions) is going to dig deep into Neil's back catalogue, wouldn't Motor City have been a more apropos choice for that particular venue?
Given the president's notoriously and pathetically thin skin, my hunch is he's hanging on every word that Neil says about him, and this doubling down on using Neil's music at his campaign events has become a petty, childish form of payback. As usual, the man cannot let any slight go unanswered.
"There's corruption on the highest floor."
The Donald took his bible and laid it on the stool. "With the congregation running, why should I play the fool?"
I’m not sure what the big deal is. Trump has always been a big Neil fan. I was a few rows behind Trump at Carnegie Hall in 2014. Neil even gave him a little personal wave from the stage. Like most celebs Neil was friendly with Donald before he became the world’s most hated man. Hate the guy all you want but I wouldn’t waste time on any theories that he’s doing it out of some payback agenda.
@ Sedan Delivery - fair question we suppose.
But it s what we do here @ TW, that's all. This blog was founded 25 years ago with a mission to discuss the complex intersection of music, politics & business, as you well know.
1996 to be exact. Back when bands like Pearl Jam were testifying on Capitol Hill about the Ticketmaster "raping fans" with exorbitant fees.
but we digress... same as it ever was ...
At any step of my analogy I readily will admit that the human beings who are mentioned definitely are not comparable. But the problem is: In the most atrocial history of my country one thing I never was able to fully grasp, is that how these SS men were listening to Beethoven, Schubert and even Mozart after their daily shift of murder of innocent and defenseless human beings. So if a lesson is to be learnt from that: culture and arts are not a safeguard against acting inhumanely.
Again, in no way the current imposter at the White House as a person can be compared to Nazi psychopaths, but his behaviour breaching all rules of politeness and respect does constitute a breach of civilized interaction. So it is useless to muse about the motives behind the use of Neil Young songs to boost his shambolic campaign. The human being and his or her psyche are such that they can easily push aside all cognitive dissonances. The White House imposter has proven that time and again.
God bless President Trump.
@ Dionys - ok, let us see if we follow here.
we value your view from abroad and really want to make sure we're understanding the point here.
your comment inspires a thought exercise ...
if we were blogging back in WW2 and we were -- say -- a big Beethoven fan. And say we covered Beethoven like we do here @ TW w/ Neil.
OK, so one day we get this news item as you say that Hitler listened to Beethoven. Relxed to Beethoven . Played Beethoven at his rallies.
So are folks suggesting that back then that we ignore Hitler's obsession w/ Beethoven? The fact that Hitler liked Beethoven's music was irrelevant? That it is truly 'useless to muse about the motives."
Because that seems to be what we're sensing here. just ignore this inconvenient fact? We've always believed that the pervasive obsession over "Nazi psychopaths" & "serial killers" was based on the belief that to understand was in order to avoid a repeat.
Well, at least that is what we're trying to do here @ TW. try and learn something from our histories -- the good and the bad -- so that the bad won't repeat and the good prevails.
If our mission is misguided or understanding flawed, please enlighten.
peace
@ Jonathan - FWIW: "There's something happening here. What it is, ain't exactly clear"
at the risk of major fireworks here, maybe you can shed some light on this phenomenon of "Trump's obsession w/ Neil Young's music"?
Is this really similar to Hitler liking Beethoven???
Is there value to rusties on reporting Trump's use of Neil's music?
seriously, the selection of “Devil’s Sidewalk” is totally inexplicable and makes no sense. It's even beyond the illogical use of RITFW w/ lines "kinder, gentler machine gun hand".
or are campaign staffers just clueless and never listen to lyrics and understand them?
@thrasher - Don’t get me wrong. It’s definitely worthy of a blog post to mention Neil’s music being played at the speech along with Neil’s reaction to it, but it just makes sense that Trump is simply a fan of Neil’s music. I think he has proved that with his concert attendance, and I would guess that’s why Neil went to Trump for a Pono investment. He knows he’s a fan.
It seems silly to assume that Trump has a payback plan where staffers are sifting through Neil’s deep cuts just to mess with him. I also think we are in a bubble here. I’m in my mid 30s so I’m well off the standard demo, but most of my friends and acquaintances don’t know who Neil is. If they even hear RITFW at an event they are probably only listening to the chorus, if that. Same with Devil’s Sidewalk. It’s a catchy riff and probably just a song that Trump likes.
Does Neil’s music (or any music) represents some exclusive moral high ground? I’d be curious to know what politicians possess the moral purity to enjoy Neil’s music without raising eyebrows. One of the Clintons? Surely you jest. Perhaps Bernie is the only one? Is music only reserved for people that the artist has explicitly endorsed? Most rockstars have led, let’s say, “morally complicated” lives to put it politely. Should we even care about who they do and don’t want to use their music on moral grounds (assuming no copyright laws are being broken)? Who gets to cast the first stone?
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Normally I hit and run with my political comments and obvious conservative beliefs...but ok I’ll bite
I am in agreement with Sedan Delivery 100%
Donald Trump has a well documented history of being a serious fan of Neil.
A few weeks back, Neil even posted a strange account of ‘45’ showing up with a bass where Neil was rehearsing...something like that...anyway Neil sure didn’t look upset in those pictures at Trump Tower when he was going to Trump hat in hand asking for investors to pony up...
As far as the Hitler listening to Beethoven - not going there...Mr. Trump is a patriot and I refuse to engage in some petty bullshit where Donald Trump gets compared to Hitler
One thing President Trump excels at is exposing hypocrisy on all sides...I despise both major political parties but especially the Democrats...but I’m well aware that many feel the polar opposite (not vortex)
President Trump has great taste...in music...in women...what’s the problem? Oh I see - Orange Man Bad couldn’t possibly be a genuine Neil fanatic like us who come here to read and rave about our favorite artist...
He’s a lunatic didn’t you know?
It’s amazing that Trump has withstood years of a relentless assault by the thoroughly corrupt media...the same media that gave Obama a tongue bath daily despite his numerous scandals and a pathetic economy.
I have no idea who is choosing the particular Neil songs that get played at Trump events...I assume it’s Trump himself...I don’t know....don’t really care...let there be songs...to fill the air
My personal issue with this President playing Neil’s songs is simply based on respect. Neil has made it very clear that he does not approve of his songs being used for this particular purpose. Yet the president persists in using them anyway. This isn’t about copyright laws, it’s about common courtesy. If the President is a big fan of Neil, then one would expect him to respect Neil’s wishes and cease and desist. I’m sure there are many other artists who would be more than happy to hear their songs played for the President. In this case, Neil is not one of them.
Peace
If Trump had invested in Pono, would Neil be thinking differently? Cuz you can call him Hitler all you want, but I remember Neil smoozing up to Trump for money. Maybe it's better for everyone to forget all about it, but that's the fact.
Now, even as a Trump supporter, I do believe that if Neil doesn't want his music used, Trump should respect that. I do think that's it's pretty cool that Trump is obviously a fan, but I also understand Neil being upset.
Btw, from what I've read, Hitler was a big Wagner fan.
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@Dan--I agree, which is why I feel the president's continued, fairly heavy use of Neil's music is shameless and immoral.
As my final comment on this matter, I suspect Trump started out as a genuine, unequivocal fan. However, given the president's documented, disproportionate attention to anyone who criticizes him, I suspect some of Neil's recent lyrics and statements have to sting a bit. In fairness, many people would feel a bit let down if they genuinely admired someone and found that the sentiment was not reciprocated. Having previously rubbed shoulders with Neil, a narcissist in particular might find such a reversal of fortunes damaging to the ego.
Therefore, I maintain it's possible the president's original regard for Neil has evolved into a love/hate situation. Moreover, I think anyone who dismisses, out of hand, the possibility of Trump making a conscious, highly specific statement in using these songs is overlooking the president's dogged, seemingly constant focus on propagation of counter-narrative against what he sees as unfair attacks in the news and media.
As for "exposing hypocrisy", I have to admit the irony of that statement got a chuckle out of me. Yet no amount of whataboutism (whether overt or implied) expunges Trump's own moral deficiencies and profound blind spots. Ultimately, I'm disappointed-- and truthfully puzzled as to what the man's allure is for many of my fellow citizens.
Yes, respect for an artist’s wishes is all well and good, and I respect that argument in theory. But if I’m Don I’m thinking “so I’m a good enough guy for you to ask for my money, but not good enough to play your music....plus you get to stand on stage and scream curse words about me?”
Neil is a hypocrite on this issue.
@Sedan Delivery: I guess I'll be a hypocrite too, revisiting this thread. I can understand where you're coming from, but Neil has a right to change his mind about someone--no? Hypocrisy is in human nature, but it's also a fact of life that shit changes.
In reality, I could hardly care less about the president's opinions. If he were to respond directly to NY's words with invective of his own, it would be a drop in the bucket to everything else he mouths off about with regularity. Utilizing Neil's own songs, for what essentially amounts to political propaganda, is a subtly different issue, imho--and the willy-nilly appropriation of popular music at political events usually strikes me as distasteful regardless of candidate or party, in that it tends to cheapen both the music as art and the spirit of spirit of democratic engagement that these events are allegedly meant to represent.
tl;dr--At the least, Neil has a right to explicitly distance himself and his image from the president's use of his music, or from any use of music that he finds ethically objectionable.
Seriously though. This has to be the coolest thing about Trump. Does this mean even Donald Trump has soul? Maybe but I'm guessing he'd skip past songs like Thrasher and Pocahontas.
NY has the right to change his mind.
When he met Donald Trump for the Pono, he met a businessman, an entertainer, a little eccentric. But that's it.
Today, Donald Trump is President of the United States and he has shown what he is capable of. A man who doesn't respect people, who laughs at a disabled journalist, who doesn't care about the climate, who believes that a virus disappears overnight, who builds walls between people, who thinks he's becoming friends with dictators, who is filthy with women... Etc...
It makes a big difference.
Donald Trump by using NY music is just doing what he does every day: he doesn't respect anything or anybody, he acts like a selfish child, king of his family.
For starters, I guess I would agree that the polite, gracious thing to do would be to honor someone’s request when it comes to something like this, but then Donald Trump is not a polite, gracious man when it comes down to brass tacks, which is exactly the mindset the powers behind him had in mind when they approached him to run for the Presidency, something he had to be convinced into doing. He’s clearly not a politician, he’s a disrupter- again something his backers were looking for, something long honed as a negotiating tactic in order to bring out people’s real positions, and real objections. Bluster, bad manners, self aggrandizing statements, buffoonery, and more- crazy like a fox.
What is the urgent crisis at hand requiring brass tacks? Well, take a look at what Rockin’ In The Free World chronicles (incidentally, a song that calls out the man many people believe JFK Jr.- a close personal friend of Trump, had identified as being at the very center of his fathers public execution- a man whose party aligned politics, along with the democrats, is the very thing that Trump is standing up against, but never mind that for now). Whatever else you think about the songs meaning, its upshot is that despite all the attacks on freedom, you have to still stand up and fight for what you think is right, and wrong or right, many people believe this is exactly what Trump is doing, including myself. As I’ve said elsewhere, how is it that no one short of a Donald Trump could be found to lead the charge of the behind the scenes patriots in this last ditch effort to oppose the tyranny of globalism, and the Federal Reserve Bank? "Drain the swamp," rend asunder the Deep State, the Shadow Government. How is it that no one possessed of any backbone, not bought and paid for, no establishment figure not compromised in one way, shape, or form, can be found to do the right thing?
Can anyone deny that the country is not in a metaphorical “Hurricane” at the moment? Notwithstanding Neil’s objections, I think the song choices are right on.
The more pertinent to me song choice is Devils Sidewalk, a metaphor for the battle raging against good and evil, a battle that clearly defines the Civil War and second American Revolution the country is currently right smack in the middle of, in addition to the larger struggle being waged on a world wide basis- a struggle that traces its origins all the way back to the Tower of Babel, but, better not go there, except to say that Thrashers oft alluded to “Big Shift” weighs in the balance- the Great Awakening, the much needed shift in consciousness, Ascension, etc.
A Friend Of Yours, part A
Anyways, I thought about it for a bit last night after reading this post, and the comments, and though I didn’t have the time to really go into it, from my memory of Devils Sidewalk I wasn’t perplexed by the song choice at all. Nor was I surprised by the other choices, although Cowgirl In The Sand?, that doesn’t quite fit in other than “Be on my side, I’ll be on your side,” I guess. Dunno. Sure, for the average person, heck, even for some Neil fans, it’s a relatively obscure cut off a relatively obscure album, but evidently Trump is not the average person when it comes to knowledge of Neil, and very likely neither is someone(s) somewhere on his campaign team.
Just take a close look at the incredible lyrics. It describes the devil dining on the “streets of hate,” and the captain sounding the warning to a crew who would rather focus on a “woman delicious.” Never mind, there is no metaphorical devil, no streets of hate. Some things aren’t getting better or worse, and there’s nothing to avoid, as long as we have so many toys to enslave- I mean, divert our attention. “There’s a garden growing… And a million weeds… With no way of knowing… Who has done which deed.” Sound like an “invisible enemy,” sound like something Trump is always on about? An enemy that, throughout republican and democrat administrations alike, has successfully sought to destroy America’s industrial base, so that globalism’s new engine of empire, China, can be built up? You wouldn’t want to trumpet those sentiments walking into a car factory in Michigan, would you? There is so much more to say, but I’ll leave it at this- there is a lot of grist for the mill here, and strange as it may seem, there is more than enough there in the lyrics to match up with the real world crisis that Trump and his backers are trying to wage war against, whether you like him or not, and you will never understand the man and what he is attempting to do, if you don’t understand the battle against evil that is being waged. But, if you just can’t stomach so disagreeable a man co-opting songs that make the honest attempt to call out evil for what it is, then ignore it. Don’t give it the attention that will blow it up into something more than it is. But, again, notwithstanding Neil’s objections, I’m fine with it.
A Friend Of Yours, part B
@ the oversimplifiers commenting
1. I did not compare Trump to Hitler.
@ all the others
2. I mentioned the erratic behaviour of Nazis working in extinction camps listening to classical music after their cruel work being done and that I never came to understand how this beautiful music could be part of these persons’ lives.
3. I concluded that human nature obviously is able to perfectly deny any connection between admiring art and other deeply humane expressions of culture and gross acts of inhumanity.
4. I further concluded that if 3. applies not in scale but in principle to somebody like the imposter at the White House, it does not make sense to me to further think about it. (Also see: Hannah Arendt’s concept of “the banality of evil”)
5. In no way I object to the fact that it is reported here that the imposter is exploiting Neil Young songs for his campaign and that Neil Young objects to the imposter’s exploitation, I just do not think there will be a reasonable answer as to why the imposter does it beyond what others have been saying in less drastic words.
@ Dionys - again, thank you for the most provocative thought experiment we've had here @ TW in quite awhile. very appreciated. there's a lot of complexity and line blurring going on so it's pretty easy for folks to be misunderstood in the global hothouse cyberspace.
@ Greg/AFOY - most excellent. soon to be featured as a CotM.
"Fight against evil"? Trump, an outsider to global capitalism? The lack of nuance and absence of insight here is crushing. The establishment (a discursive construct if ever there were one) is dysfunctional, but if Trump is your best answer, that's a very poor show--pathetic even. Anyone who buys the "I alone can fix it" mantra is either bullshitting, deluded, desperate, or some combo of the three.
@Thrasher, if this is to be a cotm, please don't expect to hear more from me any time soon. I have no wish to be party to disingenuous magical thinking about the vexing problems our society and planet have perennially faced and will continue to struggle with in one form or another until the sun burns out.
See, I can do my own line in nihilism fairly effectively when I wish to. And while such thinking does not necessitate recourse to biblical narratives, it is worth noting that those whose religious beliefs rely on the notion of eminent "end times" will tend to see apocalypse everywhere. In a twist oddly relevant to the recent Ditch Trilogy discussion, this tendency toward apocalyptic thinking is the greatest risk of investing too readily and completely in overarching narratives or structures--even seemingly positivist ones. As positive can be defined only in opposition to negative, so it is that the pinpointing of "good" forces relies on the abjection of some of our fellow humans as "evil".
Good and evil, insofar as they exist at all, are encompassed within in each and all of us. Just as the Kingdom of Heaven may be within you, so is any adversary you may encounter in the external world equally a constituent of one's own mind. That's not remotely to say that humans have an inherently corrupt or fallen nature--that would simply be ignoring the "good" parts. Our nature (if you will) is neither "this" nor "that" but "this" *and* that"--yin and yang are, in fact, not perfectly dual or parallel, but rather impregnated within one another, and we see in category or duality (such as up and down, or good vs. evil) as a matter of the limitation of our physical and intellectual senses.
In short, the sooner we recognize that our struggles are within us--that neither material nor cosmic powers are independent of our yearnings and energies, the more quickly and deeply we can ease even an nth part of our suffering, of the planet's suffering. To take up a bit of Joseph Campbell's language, if the hero wears a thousand masks, so does the adversary--and under each of those masks, the conscious observer can find a mirror.
In summary: I have enjoyed my time with this nexus of all things Neil, but my mental health and well-being come first. To that end, perhaps we'll meet in the motel of lost companions on another day. For now, the time has come to give what's mine, with peace and blessings.
~Through the keyhole of an open door.
@ Ian - well, this certainly didn't quite go over as intended. :(
hmm. ok, let's see if we can get this back on track b/c we certainly don't want to lose your valuable input here. Nor do we want to lose AFOY's either.
so. for everyone, in an attempt to clarify here. The CotM is primarily to showcase a view. Not necessarily to endorse but to provide broader perspectives.
One of the drivers here is that as a "rust refugee" we're out in the wilderness. We're not in the walled garden paradise of rust. Don't mis-understand. we love the rust community and have deep roots. Just that rust & TW are diff animals when it comes to neil.
As noted, we've had to traverse twitter since being suspended from FB/Rust. so be it.
The twitterverse is quiet chaotic, especially in these Neil/Donald cross-over topics. the debates --such as they are -- are literally incomprehensible on the platform.
And this is a classic topic of "intersectionality". That's a new word for us which has come into vogue in recent years where two seemingly unrelated topics are blended into a third new theory. So when worlds collide in the Neil/Donald universe, "Strange things happen" as they say.
So Ian, pls do check out the context of AFOY's CotM.
http://neilyoungnews.thrasherswheat.org/2020/07/comment-of-moment-donald-trump-uses-3.html
Hopefully it doesn't make you "party to disingenuous magical thinking". The comment is posted for others to take a shot at. We highly value diversity, much to many's consternation.
If you recall the LWW days, this blogger was often derisively referred to as a "Neil sycophant" and boy did that annoy us to no end. Particularly since it was often just hurled at us without anything to support the accusation. but not to dredge up ancient history or anything.
well, that was a long way of saying, please stay. don't go. we need you. the world needs folks like you and AFOY out there speaking your truths to power.
we're in some dark times here with discourse reduced to likes, shares, re-tweets, etc.
We'd like to think that @TW we're able to have rational, informed debates on topics of our times. we learn tremendously from our readers everyday. that's why we do what we do.
" 'Cause there very few of us left my friend
From the days that used to be"
peace
Man, I would hope that no one stops checking out this site just because there are some of us that support Trump.
I mean, I know I'm in the minority here and sometimes I do like to stir things up, but I would never stop posting here because most of you think differently about politics.
We're all Neil fans (Trump included), that's what's really important.
@Thrasher, I was too hasty and your comments deserve a thoughtful reply... please see my upcoming direct email.
@richie, For the record, my main objection isn't to people who simply voted for and/or even continue to support POTUS generally. Your and Jonathan's posts, for instance, don't particularly bug me. I have a specific issue with what I find to be the extreme tenor of Greg's comment. This is an important difference I don't want anyone to miss or ignore. I hope that clarifies my position.
~Through the keyhole in an open door.
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