Neil Young with Promise of the REAL will open for Paul McCartney on Night #2, October 8, 2016.
Desert Trip Festival is set for Oct. 7-9 at the Empire Polo Field, Indio, CA. The Stones and Dylan are featured on Friday; McCartney and Young follow on Saturday; and closes with Sunday-night performances by the Who and Waters.
Reserved seats and general admission passes go on sale May 9 at 10AM PT at DesertTrip.com. Single-day general admission passes are $199.
Los Stones, McCartney, Bob Dylan, The Who, Roger Waters y Neil Young tocarán en el festival Desert Trip, en octubre https://t.co/3xRiaFZyQn
— Diego Lerer (@dlerer) May 3, 2016
So if Neil is going to play in California in October, that bodes well for a Fall US leg of the current tour! Hopefully the Dinosaurs in the Desert Festival will be on pay per view.
ReplyDeleteAny word about ppv? My wife and are disabled..unable to travel..love ppv
DeleteThis could also lead to a real interesting Bridge School lineup.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSpecial area for zimmer frames? Or zimmerman frames?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe way they are advertising this, it's basically "the one concert where there is a strong possiblity a rock legend may die on stage!". The focus seems to be less on the music (the promotional video uses out-dated clips from decades ago) and more on saying goodbye, even if the artists aren't ready to go just yet. A manufactured elephants graveyard, designed to sell expensive tickets by making them seem more valuable than they are. Musicians presented like museum exhibits, valued for who they once were.
ReplyDeleteThat's one perspective.
And It's the last chance you are going to get to see these iconic bands together, according to Elliot Roberts and Roger Daltrey. It really is a once-in-a-lifetime event. And above all, that's why these tickets can be so expensive. It's something to tell your grandchildren about, an event to remember. Being able to say "I was there!" can be worth a lot. So that's another side of the story.
Of course, from Neil's point of view, his heart is no doubt sinking at all this talk of an "end of an era". Neil Young still feels young, he wants to live another 50 years, and I don't think I'd bet against that happening. He's just getting warmed up. He doesn't want to be grouped in with a bunch of other OAP acts that draws attention primarily to his advancing age. And that's with no criticism of the other bands. And this show will pay ridiculously well, and it's only one night, so there are compelling motives to do it.
Bob Dylan, of course, loves money (he's got 300 children) but will disapprove of the whole thing and put in the least amount of effort possible. Worse case scenario. Best case scenario is he does a faithful rendition of his current show (heavy on Sinatra material) which is musically sincere and powerful, but is also completely at odds with this type of celebratory festival-type event. He's still a contrary old buzzard with some tricks up his sleeve. But on the promotional video they used a clip from eons ago; he sounds nothing like that now.
As usual, Bob is the black sheep, he doesn't fit in. And I'm not convinced Neil Young does, either.
Scotsman.
Scotsman - good point Neil doesn't fit in with this schlock. Remember he refused to be filmed at Woodstock yet he's signed up to this nonsense. No doubt he and Macca will join together for a sing along from the Monsanto Years!
ReplyDeleteIsn't it just one big corporate mess with big screens for people sitting miles away?
Bob & Neil should be playing the same night. Paul takes the stage after Neil & POTR rage on it for an hour or so? Good luck, he may want to put any 'filler' material at the beginning of the set! I used to think the Who was the second greatest band in the history of rock n roll but when Daltrey stopped the show a few years ago & told the guy in the audience to put out the joint or they were leaving my opinion changed. Them complaining about pot is like Popeye bitching about spinach.
ReplyDeleteScots agree with much of what you said but perplexed about why you say that "Bob loves money"? The Stones are the biggest money whores the business has ever seen by a country mile … and by the way, let me start by saying I love every act on this bill, Neil being my favorite by a wide margin but that's in no small part to the fact that he's the only one of these legendary acts that's vibrant, and at the top of his game, but if you're going to emphasize the cash grab, which is basically what this event really is, its very odd that you single out Dylan when Mick Jagger is the greediest business man of the lot (and I say that kind of lovingly cause I'm a big fan)?? Regarding Bob (and Neil) not fitting in, I'd agree Neil doesn't fit in in that he's not playing a greatest hits show, I think the others pretty much are (although I don't follow Dylan not sure what his gig is) … My guess is Elliot got the call and said to Neil you'll make a gazillion dollars and its an epic Bill whats the downside of being part of it … in many ways the fan base seems more fitting than a typical festival anyhow …
ReplyDeleteDoc: verbally abusing the audience has been part of The Who's stage patter for a long time. My favourite part is when they threaten to aim a flame-thrower at the crowd. I wouldn't take it too seriously.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure the final running order is set in stone for this show. But I think Neil coming on before Paul does makes sense. Personally I prefer Neil's music, but Paul is undoubtably by far the better known artist, with more songs that everybody knows. More of a crowd pleaser, which is better-suited to this style of event. I suspect he will go down well.
I think the Bob Dylan/Rolling Stones pairing is more of a car crash in the making. And I've really enjoyed Bob's recent shows. But the style of music he does nowadays doesn't suit this style of event, at all. Coming on first or last is going to do him no favours at all. But he's going to leave the show a much richer man, which I suppose is the whole point.
Scotsman.
I hope they lay in a good supply of defibrillators.
ReplyDeleteOh, duh, Bob is Jewish … I missed your thinly veiled reference the first time …
ReplyDeleteYour "loves money comment regarding Bob Dylan made no sense to me at first, had to think about it for a bit
Consistently overly harsh criticism of Neil and POTR is in the category of annoying but hey Neil fans tend to be a cranky bunch and your views on POTR seem to be rapidly evolving
Bigotry and anti-semitism is a different matter even if thinly veiled … I really hope I won't be the only on to call out Scots for this despicable behavior … really, really offensive, I thought this was the 21st century …
Just to be absolutely clear: there was no intended reference to Bob being Jewish in my comment. I hope this is obvious to everyone here except for Dan1. I don't even understand the implication, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteDan1: you have written 3 outrageous, nonsensical comments towards me in the last week, and you had the good sense to delete two of them. Perhaps it would sensible to do the same with the third.
Scotsman.
Scots, lets let the rest of the board decide whether your comment was a thinly veiled anti-semitic comment, its pretty obvious that it is … it would have been even if it was a conversation about just Dylan and you wrote "He loves money" … but to single him out when there are 5 other acts getting a pay-out is over rather than "outrageous" … rather than deny you should take responsibility and apologize for such an offensive comment … regarding my deleting comments, I deleted one (not two -- check your facts) and it was far from outrageous it was thoughtful and logical but it painted CSN in a bad light and I felt it wiser to avoid doing so … I'm actually shocked you would suggest I delete my last comment, I actually think you should delete your bigoted comment and apologize rather than try to go on the offensive and blame me …
ReplyDelete...To be clear, for the hard-of-thinking.
ReplyDeleteIn the last fifteen years or so, Bob Dylan has advertised everything from lingerie to ipods to 4x4s to computers. To clarify further: he remains one of my favourite artists (second only to Mr Young), and you may have noticed me compliment him many times on this blog. But at times he has succumbed to "selling out" his music in a way that Neil has generally chosen to avoid. He even self-deprecatingly talks about this in an interview a few years back.
My point above (which I think I made very, very clear), taken in correct context and without Dan1's spin, is that of all the artists featured here, Bob's music is most likely going to suffer the most. I was talking about compromise, the collision of art and commerce. Some artists (like The Stones) are artistically well suited to these crowd-pleasing, all-star events. Bob Dylan, as great as he is, is not one of them. This event will be a great pay day for him,but is unlikely to produce a particularly exceptional performance.
it seems every day Dan1 has a new accusation to throw at me. Everyday I make an effort to write with clarity and honesty, and every day Dan1 twists what I have said into something perverse and sinister. I will look forward to seeing what tomorrow brings. Perhaps I will suddenly be portrayed as a terrorist or something.
Scotsman.
Sorry, I normally don't chime in with the "in-house finger pointing" and nitpicking, but I don't think Scots meant anything about the Jewish people by his "Bob loves money" comment. I took it that he was referring to the fact that Bob's been on a never ending tour and sells his music for commercials, etc...
ReplyDeleteGuys, let's move on and talk about the music and everything that's related to it. It's not about us...
Shalom :)
I can promise that on everything I hold dear to me, I am not in any way anti-semetic, or racist in general. I hope it is clear to people that this implication comes from Dan1's increasing obsession with me, no where else.
ReplyDeleteEnd of subject, unless someone wants to bring it up again.
Topanga: thank you. I personally would love to talk about the music, as always: unfortunately Dan1 keeps insulting me, and we Scottish don't like that. And no, I'm not anti-Scottish, either!
Scotsman.
There are six acts, one is the Stones who are known to be the richest rock stars, charge the highest most outrageous ticket prices, and haul in the biggest revenue from their tours … there is one Jewish act whose tickets are at the low end of this group … he singles out the Jewish guy, really? I think we can agree that a 70 year old doesn't go on a never ending tour to make more money, they do so because he's a music man … otherwise he could jack up ticket prices higher, sell off his catalog, ramp up the commercials, license his brand … see below, from the '13-'14 time frame … Stones are charging $500 a ticket and Dylan is charging $100 a ticket … and Dylan "loves money" give me a break … any knowledgeable fan knows this …
ReplyDeleteHuffPost:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/04/rolling-stones-ticket-price-hyde-park-london_n_3014678.html
Rolling Stones Ticket Prices: Fans Rage At $500 Standing Price For Rockers’ London Gig
Mark Hanrahan
“You Can’t Always Get What You Want,” according to one famous Rolling Stones track. Fans might want to heed that advice, as a furious backlash has erupted online over the $500 price of some tickets at the band’s upcoming London gig.
Standing-room tickets at the front of the Hyde Park venue in London are going for £330 (just over $500), with the cheapest tickets at the back of the park going for £95 ($144).
From an article on Dylan's 2014 never ending tour:
Bob Dylan tickets are also on offer for his one-off shows at Cleveland’s State Theatre on Nov 12 ($126) and Washington’s DAR Constitution Hall on Nov 25 ($126), his only Canadian dates at Toronto’s Sony Centre for the Performing Arts on Nov 17 ($209) and 18 ($230) and his residency at Philadelphia’s Academy of Music on Nov 21-23 (all $116) …
Dan1:
ReplyDeleteI repeat:
"I promise on everything I hold dear to me, I am not in any way anti-semetic, or racist in general.
End of subject, unless someone wants to bring it up again."
You appear to be completely obsessed with me this afternoon. Please desist. I've explained myself clearly above. Not sure what more I can do.
Scotsman.
Topanga, totally prefer to stay on topic here but in short order we've seen a comment against transgender folks here, we've now seen a very thinly veiled anti-Semitic comment … even if your views differ hateful rhetoric and espousing negative stereotypes should be condemned full stop. Hiding behind an alias shouldn't make bigoted comments acceptable. Sorry, writing he "loves money" in this case is hard to impossible to explain away (by the way haven't all 6 of these acts been basically commercially active for the past 50 years culminating in this massive cash grab?) … lets be fair, sadly lots of folks still possess negative views and believe negative stereotypes about groups, look no further than the current political discourse … hopefully people evolve in their views .. when those hateful views slip into the public discourse they should be condemned. A simple apology for being insensitive is the mature and appropriate response … however sadly the typical response is either denial or discredit the messenger.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the concert, I think it's a great idea and I love that Neil's involved, primarily because it elevates his stature as one of the all-time greats to the world at large.
ReplyDeleteMost of us here place him on the Mt. Rushmore of rock, but to the larger music world there are big pockets that have barely heard of him or consider him a minor blip on the radar screen.
Putting Neil in the company of the others (except for Waters who I also think the world at large doesn't know too well as an individual) is quite an honor.
The Stones, McCartney and the Who are all absolutely at the top of the list historically when it comes to overall popularity, name recognition and historical impact, who these days are able to put on stadium ready stage shows sure to be crowd pleasers.
Dylan is Dylan, and I think he's the single most important rock figure of the 20th century and his stature and influence over generations can't be questioned. Sure, he's no longer a great (or good) performer, but he's Dylan, he's not really performing. Dylan is completely on his own path and doesn't care at all what his fans think. Neil does care (at least a little), but wants us to think he doesn't...
Neil will pull out all the stops for this show. I expect a 3 hour + career retrospective including the Monsanto stuff (and probably another new song or two). It will be an enhancement to the shows he played last year with the POTR, and as Scots said, the band is learning how best to support Neil, so by October it should be really special.
Then again, Neil could open with a 30 minute "F** Up" so:
Take my advice
Don't listen to me
TD: Yes, and Neil will deliver the goods wherever he plays. Some shows are better than others, but he always makes a serious effort. The only thing that tends to deraill him is sound quality problems on stage. But I've never seen a show where he didn't give it his all.
ReplyDeleteDylan is much more unpredictable. You never know what you are going to get. I've seen him several times over the last ten years, ranging from "appallingly bad" to "fantastic". Having said that, the most recent two (Royal Albert Hall and Cardiff October 2015) were the best in quite some time, so I wouldn't write him off just yet. But your tolerance for his latest tour will depend largely on how much you like his recent album "Shadows In The Night". It's clearly a very different style of music to what he is famous for.
Scotsman.
Some of your comments remind me of the '50's witch hunts but that is par the norm today when every word or deed today is misconstrued as prejudiced or racist and every American leader in history and even regular people are being targeted this way. This site is about NY music so some you guys get along or shut the F#*@ up.
ReplyDeleteThanks Timothy.
ReplyDeleteScotsman.
Regarding "hateful rhetoric", I have seen some here, just like everywhere else. My philosophy is to not engage when it's an isolated comment, be it perceived or real.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, "true" hate speech is designed to drag us all down into their vacuum of hate, and it's a losing proposition to get involved. Yes, we need to speak up for those without voices, etc.., but often our written words are quite imprecise. If we're pre-disposed to look for hate, we can find it almost anywhere.
In my opinion, the time to speak out is when there's a clear, repeated torrent of hate without an end in sight. Then and only then will I engage, and usually others will as well, and those of us on the "right" side usually prevail.
We don't need to give "hate" and the "haters" more oxygen. It's what they live off of, and I'd rather have them suffocate themselves which they inevitably will.
Take my advice
Please take my advice
"Love and only love will endure
Hate is everything you think it is"
If I did have any racist views etc, this is an anonymous profile, I can say what I like, and I would admit to them. The truth is, I don't hold any such ignorant views, at all, and it's upsetting for me to have this implied. But Dan1 has talked so much about this that I feel guilty even though I'm not. I feel an obligation to defend myself, but TopangaDaze makes a wise point.
ReplyDeleteHopefully my comments on here will NOT be deleted by the boss, as I think they were perfectly reasonable until being hi-jacked by those with an ulterior motive. Let's not create the illusion of prejudice where there is none.
Scotsman.
PS several more excellent clips from the last few shows are on youtube. Roll Another Number, Country Home, Free World etc.
http://youtu.be/ndHG-BmWCtk
http://youtu.be/vrTC4c7faTc
http://youtu.be/sLFdgBfLjL0
...and that version of Country Home sounds fantastic. Yet again, complete dominance from Neil on lead guitar. And it sounds gorgeous.
ReplyDeleteScotsman.
my 2cents ........
ReplyDelete.... i've wanted to go to Coachella for quite some years, the early spring timing has never worked
... it's a 2 day ride on a yellow harley davidson to get there from the Front Range ....the desert run oughta clear my mind heading in, .. i'll visit Joshua Tree on the way out
........ i've already seen every act on the bill except for Waters, .... well, i haven't seen POTR, but
..... i'm hoping that w/all the generational star power aligned, everyone's going to push their performance. Who'd wanna be the act to 'take the $ & run' when you've got the opportunity to show what'cha got after 50 years on the road.
....... folks'll be coming from everywhere for this .... i'm sure there'll be private jets parked at Palm Spgs International, i wonder if there'll be painted school buses in the camping lot.
..... 3 day of peace & music in the desert ...... the Thrasherites attending oughta hook up somewhere before the show & properly prepare
..... did you note they're selling 'Desert Trip' posters on the site, for $75 ? Holy phkng jeezus !
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDon't feel guilty Scotsman. Some people just don't know when to keep their mouth shut ;) TD excellent point about elevating Neil's stature to where it belongs! And we know Neil loves money because he burns through it supporting his many (side) projects so more power to you Neil. Spend it wisely! The acts are reportedly getting up to $7 mil each. Not bad for a days work. Still hoping for a PPV ala Grateful Dead. Not about to lay out that kind of cash to sit in a field a mile away. However, I would love to kick back for the weekend in my easy chair and take it all in. The biggest battle of the bands ever! But we already know who's going to win and it ain't Mick or Paul!
ReplyDeleteThanks Old Neg.
ReplyDelete...Complete 36-minute version of Down By The River from Memphis is now on youtube. Thanks as always to the taper.
http://youtu.be/rJf-Z2LQUcA
Scotsman.
I have a room at Motel 6 booked for Fri-Sat. I thought it was near the venue. its 50 miles away. Friggin CA is so big. Its 600 miles from the Northern CA town I'll be in by then. The state is 855 miles from Crescent City to Chula Vista. . GA tickets are $112.00 per band. If all 4 bands play full concerts like advertised I'll probably be happy I spose. If I cant talk any friends into going Im not going.
ReplyDeleteI just want to clarify here (and hopefully the subject can then be dropped permanently), that the anti-transgender comment from a week or so back did not come from Scotzman but from another poster, Jonathan. Based on Dan1's comment, that might not have been clear, and it really is unfair to Scotzman to leave the impression that he may have made that offensive and gratuitous comment. Normally, I find the personal attacks tiresome and not worth engaging with at any level, but it would bother me to have that comment of Dan's sitting there with a deceptive lack of context.
ReplyDeleteAs for "letting the rest of the board decide", I'm going to cast my lot in favor of Scotzman not meaning anything remotely anti-Semitic through the comment he made about Dylan loving money. Funnily enough, I was having a discussion about Dylan very recently with someone about his new album of 20th century standards, and the perception that Dylan will do a lot of stuff if the price is right came up, mostly in reference to episodes like the Victoria's Secret ad. I don't necessarily know that that's true. I don't follow Dylan very closely. I did recently read that he happened to sell a lot of material from his personal archives to be exhibited near the Woody Guthrie Center in Tulsa. On the other hand, his recent project of recording Sinatra songs doesn't sound like an artist trying to score a bestseller (although it has been a bestseller, because he's Dylan). So speaking for myself, I tend to think that he just does whatever the heck he feels and it's of no consequence to him what anyone else thinks. I really don't feel I know enough to presume that this attitude is related to any unusual attachment to profit, but my point is, scotzman's comment doesn't come completely out of left field in this regard. Neither do I think the perception generally has anything to do with Dylan's ethnicity and/or religion. It's worth noting that we don't always perceive everything that everyone does through the prism of their race, ethnicity, or religion, and while prejudice and bigotry are profound problems, it's not necessarily healthy to assume those factors were relevant to how someone reached an assessment of character.
I'm sorry to possibly drag the discussion back to all of that, but I really did feel the need to say that. As to this upcoming festival, I'll admit that, yes, the whole idea smells a little gimmicky to me and I'm a little surprised Neil went for it. The ticket price estimates I've seen are so outrageous as to be funny. I'm talking four figures here. Maybe I'm really out of touch with industry, but astronomical doesn't begin to describe it. Still, I hope for the sake of whomever pays their way in to this thing that the shows are good.
Not wishing to prolong the debate as a Jew I took no offence from Scotsman's comments, secondly I thought Dylan has disowned his Judiasm?
ReplyDeleteThirdly the whole Desert Trip reeks to me of a corporate rip-off 3 days, I'm astonished Neil has agreed to this but perhaps the divorce needs some $s - this notes for who?
Caro Neil, fratello, puoi fare benissimo da solo. Non hai bisogno di nessuno che ti accompagni.
ReplyDeleteholy heck.... its true what the say about the lovers of classic rock..... they really do get crankier year on year.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading this blog for years and years and I can say that the levels of conflict and nitpicking against each other on the most ridicules of points is just silly and more and more frequent. Albeit the perpetrators are a small minority, nevertheless its tiresome.
And for my opinion, i think Scotsman is cutting through the chuff to get straight to the point - he is pretty much on the money in regard to how this big gig in the sky is being perceived.
These guys are not sentimental old fools but they know their fans are.... mostly hanging on for the something that isn't there. That sentimentality is how you generate the hook line and sinker for putting on this thing.
Surely we all know its a business, its their business and for Paul, Stones the Who and to a lesser degree Waters they are just a nostalgia fest money machine.
Some try to mix the buseinss with art a'la Neil and Bob by continaully pushiong against the fold but the other are jukebox machines from a bygone era playing there same old same old for one last hurrah... again and again.
Who thinks the stone will do anything more controversial than bring on a celeb hit music maker to play on a few songs? they sure as hell wont play a 25 minute version of paint it black nor will the deconstruct Symphony for the devil... they don't they cant and they wont. they just plug out the same old same old. So does Macca.
But Bob and Neil generally don't and wont do that on tour.... well they might for 'one night only'
anyway.... whoever is feeling indigent and full of self righteousness about all this classic old dad rock stuff just go watch Spinal Tap again.
It really isn't a spoof you know.hopefully you come out the other side chilled and laughing.
and before you nitpick..... i know my spelling is sh*te and grammar is p*sh ..... and its sympathy not Symphony . chill it doesn't really matter. :-)
ReplyDeleteBarry, Ian, Andy: Thank you, much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteAbout this mega-concert. For me, it would be a more note-worthy proposition if it were just three of the "crowd-pleasing" acts all in one evening. The Who, McCartney, The Stones.
People could go out for a fun evening, a night to remember. But by spreading it out over 3 nights, they've watered the whole thing down. The whole point of this is to see all these "legends" together, and by spreading it over three nights, the price will go through the roof. Most people can afford to see one night, not three. And that defeats the point. This really is all about greed, taking advantage of people's natural desire for the big and shiny.
"Paul McCartney and Neil Young", "The Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan"? I'm tempted to say you'd have more fun picking the artists you like and seeing them individually on tour, if possible. Yes, there's the possibility that something particularly special might happen here. Who knows, Bob Dylan might decide to strap on the acoustic for the first time in years. He might rise to the occasion. But that applies to any show, not just this one. It's more likely to happen at a small theatre in New York.
By splitting them up, seeing them on tour, you prolong your enjoyment over a few nights, and get a few more of those "I was there!" memories to tell the grandchildren. And you probably won't have to sell the house, either, if that's the sort of thing you need to consider.
Scotsman.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteRoger Waters is the real anti-Semite; his hatred for Israel & the Jewish people is well documented.
ReplyDeleteDan seems to be like so many these days - looking for a reason to be offended....delicate little snowflake I guess.....
But because I'm disgusted/saddened by transgendered people (what are they 0.000001% of the population?), I am a bigot....got it...
The past 7.5 years have literally now dragged the American culture into the toilet.
quite sad.....
Fact about Israel: The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal,[11] and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.
ReplyDeleteRoger Waters thinks cultural boycott is the way to go. I do not agree. But the above fact is what Waters talks about. Is this something do do with antismitism? Being a jew is not the subject. Stop mixing things up.
Mr Earth , Oil burner ,Mr Soil Man ...... a busy summer burning fuel , would be good to hear him using his Convenient Canadian passport to show support for the folks in his birth land , how bout a benefit show for Fort Mac Canadians ..... Eh !
ReplyDeleteJonathan,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the compliment :) My comment re: transgendered people was meant to suggest that these folks have a pretty tough row to hoe, look at the stats -- super high rates of suicide, depression, ect ... I'm saddened too by the journey they feel compelled to take ... they don't need any more public hate ... otherwise on everything else we're on the same page.
Scots, I wrote my previous two posts at the same time you were writing yours hence we crossed signals twice. I've been away from the board for a few days but reading through it I accept your comments as sincere. Case closed as far as I'm concerned. And no obsession here, I appreciate some of your comments and love that your views on POTR are evolving so quickly as they themselves evolve ...
Topanga, I hear you. Good perspective. Accepted.
(D.) Ian Kertis,
Hopefully my post did not imply Scots made that transgender comment, I re-read my comment and I don't think I implied it, and certainly that was not my intent (to mischaracterize) apologies if that wasn't clear. When I wrote it I didn't feel it appropriate to single out that person after someone else had done so. In general really good, well reasoned points on Dylan. I think for folks who like to be truly self reflective it warrants some honest thinking about why there is apparently a perception out there that Dylan "loves money". Consider the contrast of the stones who are in my view objectively the most money loving by far of the 6 (highest ticket prices, tour every 5 years for a huge cash grab when their money runs low, sell their songs to commercials shamelessly, openly admit they are in it for the most amount of money they can get) and therefore why the the Stones don't come to mind as "loving money", just saying ... but agree not the point of this board so I'll leave it there.
Re: Old-Chella, Neil usually puts in an A+ efforts but its hard to imagine for any of these acts (including Neil) that we will see truly inspired performances ... the nature of such a high profile event, and such a massive cash grab, just is a major headwind to achieving memorable performances. That said if not for a schedule conflict, I'd be there in a heartbeat, its historic, and they all put on really great oldies shows sans Neil who remains uniquely vibrant and sans Dylan who, what can I say, lost me like 20 years ago...
Jonathan, re: "saddened/disgusted"
ReplyDeleteI'm tempted to suggest you should pick one or the other, as I find it difficult to reconcile the two. "Saddened" suggests a measure of compassion, while "disgusted" really implies zero empathy or sympathy. More importantly, be intellectually honest and try to own whatever it is you feel. Believe it or not, even when I disagree strongly with people, I can have a modicum more sympathy and/or respect when I sense they are being intellectually honest, or not attempting to disguise their feelings as something more benign or or sympathetic than they are. Above all, it's not fair to dodge actual substantive issues by simply proclaiming the evils of political correctness.
Of course, you have the freedom of expression here, as do I. Which means that if one of us says something, the other one is within his rights to reply. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you have a right not to be challenged or have others push back against your opinions. And I'm not the hypersensitive one if the person crying "political correctness" objects so strenuously to a dissenting/challenging view. There are excess to political correctness (as with most things), but the current issue does not, in my opinion, come under that category. The PC label is thrown around way too often for my taste as a cheap, and usual meritless, knock against any liberal or progressive views regarding any social or political issue. And I won't stand for anyone trying to deflect genuinely important issues by waving it all away as political correctness.
As to Israel and Palestine, I'll simply say that neither side in that conflict has behaved like perfect little angels and leave it at that.
Dan1, To be clear, whatever our other disagreements, I do not presume that you intentionally misattributed the comment in question. The wording just struck me as potentially ambiguous. Maybe that was an overreaction on my part, in which case I apologize. I should also assure you that we aren't accustomed to bigoted or prejudiced comments here. We don't even have many heated political discussions--as far as I'm aware. I was immediately surprised by Jonathan's comment on trans people, almost shocked in a way since his language strongly suggests an unfortunate prejudice and we're just not used to that sort of thing around here. But, clearly he doest consider his comments to have been objectionable, or even acknowledge that they may have been socially tone deaf. Either he misjudged the temperature of the room or he just doesn't care--or, probably some of both.
In any case, with election season upon us, and with Neil and some of his music contemporaries having a political tilt to their recent work, all of this stuff may be bubbling a little closer to the surface than usual right now. I just wouldn't want you to think we're always so unruly and quarrelsome, or prone to casual prejudice on the basis of race, religion, sexuality-gender, or any other factor.
Thanks Ian & Dan & others for keeping it classy. appreciated.
ReplyDelete